Basic Lumber Question

[mackmack]

What is the least expensive lumber to buy that you can actually stain? Is it pine? Thanks.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

You can stain anything. It is the results you are worried about. Pine is one of the tougher woods. Red oak has some pores and is open grained but generally is pretty easy to finish. Heck, if you get a hold of some amber or garnet shellac you don't even need stain. Ultimately in my wood working quest I have completely gotten away from stain. I use garnet shellac on red oak as a sealer which gives plenty of color. I sun bath, never stain, cherry. White oak, maple and walnut are all natural with just a clear finish. . All look great (at least the finish looks great).

What wood do you have access to?
What do you want to build?
What machinery do you have?

These will impact what wood I suggest. If you have access to a great hardwood lumber yard and you have the equipment to finish rough wood then we have a lot more options to help you with. If you have to buy off the rack at HD or Lowes, well then you are in trouble. Those places will likely have pine, poplar and red oak. Pine is not a lot of fun to work with, nor is it fun to finish. Poplar is ok to work with, but the color is inconsistent. Red oak would likely be the best bet but at those stores you are paying through the nose!!!!! Let us know the answers to the above questions and we can go a little further.

[LCHIEN]

you can stain pine but you dont generally get nice results.
Poplar is a bit better but the nice to stain woods start with Oak
cherry, maple, mahogany, walnut, etc.

Generally I'd consider Pine and poplar to be paintable woods, not for staining.

[cabinetman]

Fairly inexpensive but close to oak in price is clear fir. It's harder than pine, but softer than oak. Available at HD and lowes. Has an interesting grain, and you can pick what you want. As already stated your choice of projects may help direct your choice in wood selection.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[Russianwolf]

1) where are you? Different locations have very different prices on species.

2)I'll differ somewhat in opinions about staining woods. I don't like to, but that's just me. But you can get very good results on pine with gel-stains. regular stains usually wind up blotchy. Maple, again blotchy unless a gel-stain is used. Cherry, get too dark after exposed to the sun if you stain it IMO. Walnut, why would you want to?

3) do you need surfaced or rough wood? If you have to buy surfaced due to a lack of tools it limits the types available.

[mackmack]

I'm from Ohio. I am making small wooden boxes that will be used indoors. They are about 5" x 5".

Pine was the cheapest at HD at like 10 bucks for a 4 x 8 sheet and the grain looked decent enough to add some depth under the darker stain I am using. I also need something in 1/2" sheets and the local lumber yards said they only stock 3/4" and that it would cost me extra to have them mill it down.

I have a 3100, router, band saw, and a miter saw.

I need finished wood because I don't own a planer and I need to make these boxes relatively quickly. To give you an idea I want to produce 200-250 of these a month. The box part is only a portion of the work to be done though.

I have been using polyshades and I'm not super impressed with the look right now. I picked up a minwax gel-stain today though so I will give that a shot tomorrow.

I was told on here in an earlier thread that the sheets of pine that I have been using would actually be cheapest at HD and Lowes, which I found really surprising.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I'm from Ohio. I am making small wooden boxes that will be used indoors. They are about 5" x 5".

Pine was the cheapest at HD at like 10 bucks for a 4 x 8 sheet and the grain looked decent enough to add some depth under the darker stain I am using. I also need something in 1/2" sheets and the local lumber yards said they only stock 3/4" and that it would cost me extra to have them mill it down.

I have a 3100, router, band saw, and a miter saw.

I need finished wood because I don't own a planer and I need to make these boxes relatively quickly. To give you an idea I want to produce 200-250 of these a month. The box part is only a portion of the work to be done though.

I have been using polyshades and I'm not super impressed with the look right now. I picked up a minwax gel-stain today though so I will give that a shot tomorrow.

I was told on here in an earlier thread that the sheets of pine that I have been using would actually be cheapest at HD and Lowes, which I found really surprising.

All right, this is all coming together now. I remember your prior threads. Some kind of base for little fish tanks or something right?
I am sticking to my guns for your project.
Red oak for construction.
1 coat of amber shellac.
Done.
Pine is cheaper but you will need to buy stain AND a clear finish. With the amber shellac you can give it one padded on coat with a rag pad. Shellac is cheap, attractive and relatively durable. You will want to thin the amber shellac with alcohol which will be available at HD or Lowes as well. This process will be the quickest by far. Shellac dries very quickly. Gel stain will require drying over night, then applying your clear coat of choice which will likely dry over night.
I would suggest looking around and finding the cheapest red oak that you can. Since your projects are so small you can buy nice clear red oak that doesn't meet FAS standards because it is too short or too narrow. You can cut around imperfections easily as well.
You should be able to find someone in the area to sell you planed and jointed red oak in your area for $3 bf or so. Clear pine at HD in my area is $2.875 bf therefore $3 for red oak with the cheaper and quicker finish would be the way to go.

BTW, you are buying a 4 foot x 8 foot x 3/4" sheet of pine for $10? I have no idea what that product is, however I have never saw any 4 x 8 sheet goods for $10. Particle board is more than that.

[LCHIEN]

sounds like you are talking sheets? and 1/2" thick or 3/4" thick then you are talking plywood and not dimensional lumber per se.

Plywood is characterized by layers and an outer veneer layer which can be pine or hardwood depending upon the grade.

there's a wide range of plywoods (for 5x5 box 3/4" would seen to be way overkill) and obviously if you are making 200-250 per month it would pay to get the right materials inclusding outside veneer and overall thickness. Don't be shopping at Lowes and HD for anything but convenience, their selection is severly limited.

For appearance there are plywoods finished with hardwoods, birch and oak are quite popular but others are available.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Is there anyway you could post a photo of one of these completed items? Everyone seems to be going in different directions and I think it could be based upon us not knowing what you ultimately want. I understand that I am really thick in the head, but I just cant picture in my mind what you are trying to do, especially if it is involving 4 x 8 sheet goods of pine.

[mackmack]

I don't have a digital camera but I could probably borrow one.

Hopefully this will give you a better idea though.

http://www.usbox.com/Box/clear_styre...tic_cubes.html

If you look at "566fx" you will see what I am using(without the lid).

I am taking that and making an exterior container of wood. The plastic slips into it and it gives the allusion that the wooden casement is holding the water.

I am making fountains by the way, I have bamboo, rocks, a pump, and an underwater light that all fits snuggly into the bottom of that.

I have been buying 4 x 8 pine sheets from HD at like $19 each. It comes out to about $1 per fountain after I cut all the pieces. I usually cut the sheet in half with my circular saw and then run it all through the bt3100 with stop blocks to make the pieces quickly.

I have been using 3/4" pine sheets and it is a little thick so I am going to look for something in 1/2" tomorrow.

I want to get something that looks decent and is easy to work with, but price and time spent is the major concern as I need to turn a profit or it's all for not.

Thanks.

[tlt]

sounds like a neat project...if you do borrow a camera, pictures would be great!

and from your description, I'm guessing you are using 4" wide x 8' long pine boards.

[Tom Slick]

Alder is somewhat cheap, is easy to work with and takes stain much better then pine.

[mmgross144]

Staining Pine and difficult woods.

Howdy,
Hope that this helps.
Shellac is your friend in hard to stain woods. Soft woods (pine, fir, etc.) and hardwoods with inconsistent absorption rates are GREATLY aided by first sealing the wood with Zinsser Seal Coat clear shellac. Its a thin shellac that absorbs into the wood and creates a "floor" for the stain, allowing no deeper penetration, and thus a more uniform finish. It dries very fast and can be stained within the hour (read label for specifics). Shellac is compatible with all finishes and can be used as an intermediate coat between oil and water based finishes (ie, between oil stain & acrlic varnish). Shellacs work well as a "toner" (ruby, garnet, amber, blonde), as well as a sealer, allowing you to "sneak-up" on your color with multiple coats. Poly-shades work also as a toner, but can leave brush strokes if improperly applied.
Best wishes with your project!
Mike

[mschrank]

There seems to be some confusion about these pine "sheets." If I remember from an earlier thread of yours, I think you might be referring to laminated pine panels (solid wood strips edge glued) rather than plywood...am I correct?

[mackmack]

Thanks for the info on Shellac Mike.
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I just got back from HD and, to clarify,I have been buying and using "Edge Glued" Pine Boards for $19.97. 5/8" 24" x 72". It comes out to about a 1$ per fountain using this stuff.

I went there today looking for 1/2" like I said earlier. I guess NOBODY has 1/2" anything other then some smaller planks at about a foot long. I called 3 HD's and a Lowe's, I also called 2 large local lumber yards. They said that unless you are looking for ply, I would have to have it milled down from 3/4".

Most places didn't even have 5/8", pretty much everything everywhere is 3/4". I was told that that is because it would cost to much and the stuff would bend crack easily and it wouldn't be worth it economically for the manufacturer.

I have been told many times on this forum to stay away from HD because of their prices and selection, but if I can't find anything under 3/4" what choice do I have? To mill the stuff down is way to much and unrealistic for me considering how much I intend to purchase monthly.

It's weird because I had a thread on here before about "edge glued" pine and nobody knew what I was talking about. Then I called HD and the lumber guy who worked there didn't even know what it was until he went and found it. It has it's own section and a huge sign above it saying "great for shelves, furniture, and cabinetry" with the words "EDGE GLUED PINE" above it. This is at both of the HD's I have around here.

I guess I will just stick with it because 3/4" is way to bulky and this pine is a manageable 5/8". Hopefully I can get a handle on staining it. Because it is essentially long planks of separate pine fused together there is a lot of grain and movement which is pretty interesting looking in my opinion.