What tools would you buy?

[LarryG]

I’m sure you also understand how frustrating and time consuming it can be to try to do something without the right tool.

I've been thinking about this thread for part of this morning, trying to decide if I had anything worthwhile to add. I think this statement may have given me my opening.

Unless you have a deep unease about the BT and are afraid you just won't be happy with it on an emotional or gut level -- NTTAWTT -- my recommendation would be to use the money you'd spend upgrading to a cabinet saw to buy some of the other tools that aren't already in your arsenal, to lower the overall frustration level and to make your shop time more productive. As a working stiff, I find that my single most valuable asset in the shop is my time. Not my BT, not my routers, not my jointer, not my clamp collection ... it's my time. I own tools that may only get used once or twice a month, if that, and for which I arguably spent too much money. But to me, knowing I can haul out a quality tool and get the job done quickly without having to fight a substandard piece of junk is a key element in making my woodworking hobby both enjoyable and productive.

Obviously, there are practical limits to how far one can take this, and that's why I own a BT. It's not my dream table saw (Powermatic 66, or maybe the new 2000) but for now, at this stage of my woodworking "career," it's all the table saw I need. The main complaint I have with it is not its accuracy or power but rather its small physical size. Ironically, that's one of the main reasons I chose it: at 10' x 19', my shop's dimensions are different that yours but the overall area is almost identical. I wouldn't have room for a PM66 even if I did have the money for one (which, at the moment, I don't).

What I'm saying here is that while I'd love to own a PM66 and perhaps someday will, when I'm able to build a larger shop, I'm objective enough to realize that my owning such a saw will largely be a matter of braggin' rights.

One thing that will work in your favor is that you can probably use your BT3100 for as long as you care to and then part it out and recoup every penny of your investment, if not more. Many have done this in the past; now that the saw is apparently out of production, it's likely that the demand for used parts will increase as the body of current owners strive to keep their saws in use.

But, as I said ... if you don't think you can be happy with the saw, that's a different matter, and one not to be ignored. Like you, I agree that a lot of the pleasure in certain activities comes from the vibe of using and being around quality stuff. If the BT just doesn't measure up for you, so be it.

[John Hunter]

Vaking

Your points are well taken. Certainly the strength of the BT following does make one pause and think about returning such a highly regarded piece of equipment. I will have to consider it further. However, many people who own a BT do move to a higher priced saw eventually. Why is that?

I am one of those that did not move up to a more expensive saw. I can afford any saw I want but when my BT3000 went down I went out and bought the BT3100. Why? Because it does everything I want a table saw to do. I am a hobbyist, I build everything from picture frames and jewelry boxes to furniture. The BT3100 is perfect for my needs, why waste money on something that I don't need. Now if I was in a business and needed to mass produce products then I would look at something in line with that need, but as a hobbyist this is the perfect saw for me.

[meika123]

Just to add to what the others have already said, let me add a few remarks. I have had my BT3000 for several years now, and have found no job this little saw "TOY" couldn't perform. MOF, I bought my saw from Sears in the late 90's for $499.00 and wouldn't consider getting rid of it. I seriously would buy another if mine broke down right now. I added the wide table kit to mine, and can now cut over 56" from the right of the blade . Just a thought.

Dave in NC

[vaking]

I also have a wide table kit on a mobile base, I can cut 60+" to the right of a saw. I have a router table mounted in that extended rail to save space. My saw is working well for me now. People have said it before so I am just repeating - BT3100 is as precise as any high quality cabinetmaker saw. It is capable of cutting thicker stock than many cabinetmaker saws - It can rip a 4X.. stock because it has a 3-9/16 depth of cut maximum. Not all cabinet saws can match that. Where it is weaker is that it is a light duty saw made of aluminum, not cast iron. It will not withstand a 40 hours a week fight against costruction lumber for long - you will spend too much time to keep it in shape if you try. So if you decide to go into construction business on a 40-hours a week basis - you will need an upgrade to Grizzly or Ridgid. And I am also sure that your shop will have to move out of your basement for it. Ask people how many upgraded from BT while living in a basement? But if you are a hobby woodworker and especially if you decide to make mostly smaller furniture (end tables, jewelry boxes) rather than large scale entertainment centers or building structures - BT3100 will do fine.
Another consideration - I am a basement dweller. I can cut on my BT3100 bigger piece of plywood than I can deliver into my basement. I find myself slowly drifting towards smaller size projects because of that. Many people start woodworking with plans to build bookcases but end up turning pens. Woodworking is a big field, find what you want from it before committing major funds to specialised equipment.

[NJFrank]

Actually after reading the threads , allot of folks brought up the same things, and lots of good advice. Just to bring up one other thing, if you find that you are using allot of larger sheet goods, looking into something like the EZ-Smart system might be the ticket. I don't have one but is something I've been thinking about.

If your not familiar with it, it basically is a circular saw/router guide system that lets you deal with sheet goods accurately, though some folks find a guide board setup works well enough for them.

[swilkinson]

Hey Guys,

Thanks again for all the feedback. It's been very helpful.

Scott

[ironhat]

My apologies to everyone else who has heard me say this ad nauseum... If you can install your DC outside or in a different area you will save space, noise and dust (unless your bags are high efficiency). My DC is in the car half of the garage, separated by a wall with the ducting throught the wall. If you live in a mild climate you cold build a simple exterior cabinet for it and plumb in through a window. Of course, you'll be losing heat or A/C to the outside but it's only on for a short time. By way of your searches, do them as a single topic, such as dust collection, jointer, etc, instead of a broad topic and you should get a lot of info from better heads than mine.

Later,
Chiz

edited for clarity

[drumpriest]

Chiz, that works great so long as you have sufficient air flow INTO your shop, as you are sucking the air out of your shop with the DC.

[ironhat]

Ooo, that's right, Keith. THE first law of moving air from one place to the other. You can't draw a vacuum and expect to move air - it's gotta come from some where. My garage-shop is drafty enough that I haven't had a problem.

[lcm1947]

A lot of good advice and suggestions have been brought up but I believe everybody missed the most important one or at least to me. A hammer. Yep, a good solid hammer. Now don't get one of those sissy light weight ones, but get you a good heavy sucker that you can whack the crap out of stuff with. Yep, that's the trick to this woodworking business. Now I believe you have all the info you need. Just glad I was able to help.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Good choice on Bosch 1617. I suggest you purchase a large beginner set of 1/2" collet router bits from Brian Holbren. Visit www.holbren.com
Brian is a regular poster here, gives a discount to members of this site and has provided exceptional customer service to all. I have this one :
http://www.holbren.com/product.php?p...&cat=85&page=1
I like it. I like it a lot.

I know nothing about the AP1300 planer. Seems some folks like it, especially for the price. I am kicking myself of not getting the recent killer deal on the Makita, but that is history.

I would suggest returning the Rockler Router Table. It is my understanding that the top is prone to substantial sagging. You will likely find that the router and router table are 2 of your most used tools. You will want to make sure everything about your router table set up is flat, square.

The BT3, well you have a lot of input on that. I have saw a ton a really, really nice projects generated here using that saw. It does have features you can't find on other sub-$1000 saws like the riving knife (basically a splitter behind the blade, but it follows the blade closer as it is adjusted up and down) which theoretically reduces kick back potential. Sliding table is another feature, though I have heard it can be tough to set up and keep properly adjusted. If you got the BT3 for $200-$250 I would say stick with it. You will have a decent resell value (and a really great market here on this site) if you choose to upgrade. Me, personally? I got in on some steals that are unlikely to happen again, ie Jet for $150 that I sold and got 22124 saw for $400.

To spend the rest of your nice $2500 budget.

Return Rockler and use proceeds along with boost from cash on hand to purchase a nice solid router table. Many will suggest building your own for $100. 1) you probably don't have the skills yet and 2) seems like those things end up costing more than $100! LOL! Depends on how much of the Rockler system you purchased. How much refund are we talking here?
I am going to assume $250 back from Rockler and allow another $250 for a $500 budget. The Hartvilletool.com set up is highly rated. If you do want to build your own, I would suggest that you can not build a better or less expensive table top that this :
http://www.cmtusa.com/store/index1.i...ml&titleimage=
This top can be purchased for $100. Included 100% phenolic top, insert, plate, etc.
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/closeouts.asp
You will need to find a fence alternative or find a CMT dealer who sells the fence at the cmtusa.com site.
$250

Bit set mentioned above
$99

Jointer - $369 - Yorkcraft 6" Jointer - Hand wheels versus lever adjustments. Highly rated fence adjustment.
http://www.wilkemachinery.com/Yorkcr...53749490662859
There will be arguments for 8" jointer and I would like make them myself. There is IMHO only one to look at and that is the Shop Fox cloan of this Grizzly : http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0490 Shop Fox dealers are selling it for $625! Pretty sick huh? You can get it locally so no shipping, but you will pay sales tax (if applicable in your state). I hae one coming in at the end of the month myself. Woot! This has likely sold you on the 8" I would imagine.
$650


Clamps :
There have been some incrediable deals on Amazon for the Bessy K Body clamps which are pretty much the industry benchmark. THere are newer and probably better clamps such as Jets new clamp, but great deals are hard to come by for this item. You can pick up some HF Aluminum Clamps for a great price when on sale. THink $3-$7 per clamp ranging for 24" to 60".
But the key here is to watch the bargin alerts and see when I get all worked up about a killer clamp deal at Amazon.
Clamp budget :
$300

Dust :
Get Harbor Freight 2hp DC on sale for $130 or so. Toss the included bags as they are garbage. Get a replacement set of 1 micron bags at Grizzly or you can order them from a company called Process Systems. THey sale bags on ebay for killer prices. I speak highly of them. That small of a shop you are mostly dealing with hose verus pipe probably. All pipe work should be 4" Sewer and Drain pipe from Lowes, HD, etc. Cheap and lite. Pick up 50ft of PSI 4" hose on sale at Amazon right now for $35. GOod price on good hose. It will fit over the 4" S&D pipe. Pick up some cheap clamps for the pipe and hose at the store while you are at it. Blast gates and connectors as needed. You may consider a wireless or hard wired remote operation of the dust collector. I have a hard wired system that starts the DC when the gate is opened. I believe that type of system is on sale at Amazon as well.
$300 (easy)

$130 - Kreg Pocket Hole Master Kit
$50 - Corded Drill - You will need speed for drilling that can not be attained by cordless (most of the time)
$25 - Pocket Hole Screws - these things are handy even for non-pocket hole situations
$500 - 14" Grizzly bandsaw - http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0555
$50 - 6" Riser Block for above
$25 - Bandsaw blades - Timberwolf (avail at Grizzly)
$100 - Thin kerf table saw blade
$100 - HVLP spayer

I am pretty close to $2500 now so I will stop.
Bandsaw could be forgone for while and replaced by BOsch 1590 jigsaw (assuming no resawing is needed) which is a great jigsaw. This would free up $500 for items others may recommend. Maybe a $250 Porter Cable air compressor with 3 nail guns?

I think the key with my list is that in 3 years you will not be saying "Why did I buy this piece of crap?".

[swilkinson]

Jeffery

Thanks for such a detailed response. I'll have to read it a few more times to make sure I absorb it all. I've snuck in a few more tools since my original post.

Delta 50-760 DC

I bought the Delta 50-760 DC on Amazon the other day for $248 total including shipping. I had looked at the HF DC but would have had to buy another bag and having looked at some of their other tools I was a little concerned about quality.

I also happened to pick up 5 10' 4" clear hoses from Rockler when they were $11 each.

I'm thinking about buying a couple of the 4" starter kits from Rockler $29 if for no other reason than they have 2 metal blast gates each plus some fittings and hangers. The gates alone normally go for $10+-

Delta BS220TL Band Saw

Got it for less then $150 out the door at Costco. This unit sells refurbished on Amazon for $225, new for $392 at Tool King and I found a used one listed for $250 on craigslist. I figure it will last me for a while and then I can probably sell it for at least what I paid for it.

Router Table:

I bought the Router table and plate for $110 + tax I think? So I think I would only get $59 back on the table and $49 on the plate. Of course that came with a fence, DC hookup, miter slot... I think I'm going to build a cabinet for it so the table should end up with more support near the router which may help with sag. I've still toyed with taking it back but the coin toss today says I'll keep it.

Bits:

Picked up a 30 piece 1/2 bit set from bladesnbits.

Jointer:

I am planning on ordering the Grizzly G452 unless someone convinces me otherwise. At $395 to my door it would become the most expensive item with the least resell when time to upgrade. I could wait until next year and get an 8" but I really don't have the room for something that big anyway. The Yorkshire and Grizzly look almost identical save the adjusting lever on the Grizzly (to me anyway).

Misc:

I have a Dewalt drill. HF $40 DP and a hand full of clamps. (Mostly 6" but 2 36"). I plan on adding some HF clamps or Lowes had an assorted clamp kit that looks pretty good for the money.

I already have a BIG hammer so I should be set as far as lcm1947 is concerned.

TABLE SAW:

Still flipping the coin daily on this one. I went to Woodcraft and compared the PM2000 to a Delta Unisaw (X5?) and another top of the line Jet model. The PMs fit and finish was noticeably better in my eyes. I know the PM is way more saw than I need but I doubt I would ever think

"Why did I buy this piece of crap?

".

Anyway, thanks again for the great post. There really is a lot of helpful info in it. I've printed it so I can refer to it as needed.

Scott

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Good move on the DC, I would have went that way as well. You are set.

Good score on the BS. You are set.

I thought we agreed on the 8" jointer? Come on man. Help me spend your money. Seriously, I would give serious consideration to 8" jointer, maybe even more so than the upgrade you are considering with the TS.

The Router T may work out for you. Certainly building a base that is going to support the table would be great. THe problem could be practically elimanted by simply removing the router with attached plate, then there would be very little concern for sag. At $110 for plate, table top and fence I think you are good. I though you would have paid more.

I understand your coin flipping on the table saw. It is probably the most important decision. I am very, very happy with my craftsman 22124. Like I said, I love it for $400 but no way I'd pay $1000 for it. You know you could always consider a nice mid-level contractor saw. Cast iron wings and all. The big difference to me is the fence. That Beisymer fence is AWESOME and makes the saw. Most people tend to favor that fence over ANY other including Uni-fence (including The Norm).
Some folks are gonna not like this (well I may be ok here at BT3) but I would not consider the Jet. I had a Jet Contractor saw that I got for a song at Lowes. Loved it. But I don't think there is a comparison between the Unisaw, PM2000 and the Jet Cabinet saws. Uni and PM rule. What about this for $1200 delivered?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013



Rant over. Good luck and let me know when you get that 8" jointer . . . you know it is identical to the Delta DJ-20 for half the price right?

[Knottscott]

...The Yorkshire and Grizzly look almost identical save the adjusting lever on the Grizzly (to me anyway)....

Hi Scott - The Yorkie is essentially a good Delta 37-275X clone (aka 37-195) with a built in mobile base. Unless they've recently changed the Grizzly fence, one notable difference from those models and the Grizzly is the rack and pinion fence adjustment. It's a slick design, but be aware that it pokes out the back a ways. The Grizzly fence is more like the Jet, PM, GI, Ridgid, etc.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Hi Scott - The Yorkie is essentially a good Delta 37-275X clone (aka 37-195) with a built in mobile base. Unless they've recently changed the Grizzly fence, one notable difference from those models and the Grizzly is the rack and pinion fence adjustment. It's a slick design, but be aware that it pokes out the back a ways. The Grizzly fence is more like the Jet, PM, GI, Ridgid, etc.

I think Griz did upgrade the fence to the rack and pinon. If not then that is the deal killer. That is a great fence set up. But like I said, I believe Griz has it as well.