What sander for what use?

[LCHIEN]

In order of most frequent usage:

I use the ROS mostly for final finish sanding.
I use a disk/belt sander to do (disk) precision vertical and angled edges and corners and round out small circles, and I use the belt to put a straight flat surface on some items.
I use the OSS to do vertical edges and smooth out curves.
I like the 1" belt sanders to do edge contour work and finer work.

I don't like hand-held belt sanders, I have one of those triangular sanders but hardly use it and also have a 1/4 sheet Orbital and seldom use it.

[Tom Miller]

Rather than using a file to clean the edge, I have a cheap set of diamond hones from HF. The fine 'stone' gives you a cleaner edge to work with than a file.

That's an excellent point, Pappy. I picked that up from a "how-to" on scrapers somewhere (Bob Smalser? FWW video?). They treated the edge as a cutting edge (and why not?!); going through the progression of stone grits after jointing the edge with a file.

Larry's recommendation about using very light force while burnishing also cannot be stressed enough.

Too bad these salient points on scrapers are buried deep in a sanding thread....

Regards,
Tom

[cwsmith]

I'm jumping in here a bit late, but let me add my two-cents if I may.

My first power sander was a Craftsman 3 x 21" belt sander, which was purchased about 25 or so years ago. Still works very well. At the time, I was building my first deck and doing some rough carpentry, so it was fine. However, it removes material much too fast and therefore takes a "careful hand".

In the past three or so years I've purchased the Ryobi 5" VS Random Orbital Sander, Ryobi "Corner Cat", Ryobi benchtop belt/disc sander, Ridgid 5" Random Orbital, and Ridgid 1/4 sheet sanders. Following, in the order of use, are my thoughts on the subject:

I totally agree with those opinions stating that the ROS is the most often used of any of these! I like both the Ryobi and Ridgid models that I have and use them often. With the recent purchase of an old house with a terrific amount of oak woodwork, they are indespensibly the first sander I put to work.

The Ryobi Corner Cat has probably got to be the best bargain available today. For $30, you get a well-working sander, a variety of sanding media and a decent case. It's clothes iron-like shape enables me to get into the corners of those window sills as well as easily work the bevels of oak board wainscote in the kitchen. Mine is the older one with out the dust bag, so though it a bit dusty, I utilize it for small areas as described. Being small, it is tireless to use and yet very efficient.

The 1/4 sheet was my choice, because of the least-expensive, sand paper paper. Buying full-size sheets that I cut to size, I use it mostly of final finish sanding. I've also found that I can attach one of those synthetic pads to it or even a few layers of old T-shirt cut to size. For $50, it's a nice tool, versatile, and inexpensive when compared to either the ROS or especially the Corner Cat.

The old belt sander! Well, that's fourth on my list. I guess I just don't have the hand to use it on anything but really rough or uneven surfaces. It will reallly take down a high spot quickly; but if I'm not careful, it can turn those "hills" into "valleys".

The bench top Ryobi BD4600 is nicely built, heavy and well designed IMHO. I looked at several different brands and this unit was far better quality. However, ii's more of a specialty tool. Great for those small trim pieces, building toys or crafts. The disc runs true, but is a bit small, considering you only use have the disc. The belt is versatile with one end working well for inside curves. But like the belt sander, one has to be careful. If you have a small shop, this is a good tool. But if you'r remodeling or doing carpentry, it sort of is the last thing on the my list. (I just noted that the BD4600 is not in the 2006 Ryobi catalog.... does that mean it's being discontinued?)

CWS

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I am a sick, sick person. I enjoy sanding, as well as all other facets of project finishing.
Items I have that I love :

Bosch 1295DVS 5" Variable Speed ROS - my go to. Bosch has a huge line of new sanders, but this stand by works great and is very reasonably priced. This would be my recommendation if you could have only one sander.

PC 333VSK 5" VS ROS - another great sander, very reasonably priced. I occasionally pick use a swirl with this sander. I am sure this is caused by the fact that I have more aggressive grits on this sander and a great deal of the occasional problem is operator error. You can't move ROS's extremely fast.

Makita 9910 3 x 18 belt sander - I use mine more than I ever thought I would. A lot of wood workers will not need this, particularly if they are picking up a bench belt/disk sander. This sander has great dust collection out of the box, but I still hooked it up to DC.

Purchases from a few years back :

Craftsman Mouse - Sucks. Stupid Ex-wife.

Black and Decker Mouse - Still sucks. Stupid Ex-wife. (can you see the pattern here? Would you stick with someone who bought you a stupid sander TWICE?!?!? That was the reason cited for the divorce : Mouse Sander)

B&D - 1/2 sheet sander - Sucks

B&D - 1/4 sheet sander - Sucks

The problem with all the above is that they is they are orbital sanders, nor Random Orbital Sanders. The "stroke" of the sander is too long or not fast enough or something. This causes swirl marks. Orbital sanders go in tiny little circles, very fast, with a set pattern. ROS gearing causes the pattern to be much more random, resulting in less opportunity for a pattern to develop in your work.

Bottom Line : By a good, decent ROS. I recommend the Bosch or the PC above. In addition to these two, the Ridgid is very highly thought of though I can not personally comment on that. Note that the Ridgid that is sold right now is a nice german model. It is being replaced by a cheaper made Chinese model. Be careful.

[cwsmith]

Note that the Ridgid that is sold right now is a nice german model. It is being replaced by a cheaper made Chinese model. Be careful.

Noted your closing comment and respectfully wanted to say that the Ridgid 5-inch VS ROS is made by TTI in China. The Ridgid 6-inch ROS is made in Germany, reportedly by Metabo. The latter costs over twice as much as the former. Perhaps Ridgid plans on having the 6-inch unit made in China; but, I don't know.

On a personal note, I've used both the Ryobi and the Ridgid "Chinese" models quite a lot and like them both for their ease and comfort and their overall quality and durability. I've dropped the Ryobi a couple of times and it keeps on running just fine. The Ridgid is built better so I don't ever expect a problem. I originally used a borrowed Makita and it was what convinced me to by the ROS. The Ridgid was significantly cheaper, quieter, better dust colletion and does the same job. Don't know how the newer models might be.

CWS

[davidtu]

I thought the Ryobi & Rigid 5" Ros looked the same though spec. was slightly different, Anyone knew if they basically same unit -- along times of the Ryobi / Sears relationships

Also still no one know about Rigid belt sander ?

[drumpriest]

Well, Ryobi and Ridgid are owned by the same parent company, but I dunno about the sanders being the same. There is a big Ridgid ROS, which is most certainly not the same as the ryobi, but I'm sure the smaller ROS from Ridgid, and the VS version from Ryobi are similar.

Many of the brands have similar features. I have both the Ryobi and the Bosch, and I like them both.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Noted your closing comment and respectfully wanted to say that the Ridgid 5-inch VS ROS is made by TTI in China. The Ridgid 6-inch ROS is made in Germany, reportedly by Metabo. The latter costs over twice as much as the former. Perhaps Ridgid plans on having the 6-inch unit made in China; but, I don't know.
CWS

No problem, but what I was saying is exactly what you said, except I added that the Ridgid 6" ROS is reportedly being replaced by a theoretically inferior Chinese model, much lime the Ridgid Metabo cloan jigsaw is being replaced by a Chinese model as well.

[cwsmith]

The Ryobi and Ridgid 5" VS Random Orbit Sanders are not the same. They are very similar in some design features, but they are of different sizes, materials, etc. with the higher impact case, motor, better porting of the dust removal going to the Ridgid. They both share similar shapes, which are ergonomically designed, but Ryobi is a bit taller I believe. (I have the Ryobi at my new house and the Ridgid here, so I can't tell you which is which at this time.) The Ryobi has a single-size dust port with a slip on dust bag and the Ridgid has a dual-sized dust port with a screw on bag. The Ryobi standard disc pad is PSA with a stick-on hook & loop adapter pad. The Ridgid's standard pad is micro hook & loop which is removeable via four mounting screws and an alternative PSA pad is provided. The Ridgid also has electronic speed control, better motor and gearing, superior cord package and case.

Probably starting an argument with this last question, but why is made in China immediatelly considered "inferior" to the German model, when we have yet to see it?

CWS

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Probably starting an argument with this last question, but why is made in China immediatelly considered "inferior" to the German model, when we have yet to see it?

CWS

Based upon pure logic I don't think one can consider the Chinese model inferior to the German model, sight unseen or not having been tested. What you are seeing is a conditioned response that Chinese produced tools are the lowest on the rung. Additionally, Metabo products are so well received by the woodworking community in general that I think it is reasonable to have hestiation in Ridgid making that change. I think folks also maybe asserting that Metabo is better than the average Chinese product, which is likely what the Ridgid will be.

[cwsmith]

Jeff,

Thanks for the prompt and courteous reply. Let's hope that the new product exceeds expectations. I know that the "Metabo" is highly regarded. Perhaps I get a bit too sensitive as I have found nothing discouraging about the 5-inch ROS other than I wish it were made in the U.S.A. rather than China. But then, I feel the same way about almost everything else one can buy these days.

CWS

[John Hunter]

In order of use:

Bosch ROS & HF ROS
Enlon (Star) Oscillating Vertical Spindle Sander
HF 6 X 48 Belt with 9" disk
Ryobi Corner Cat and an (Ace Hardware knock off)
HF 1/4 Sheet finish sander
Tool Shop Detail Sander
Tool Shop 3 X 21 belt sander

[mpc]

My understanding of various sanders:

ROS - Random Orbit Sander - basically a hand-held unit that spins a circular sanding disk. In addition to simply spinning, the axle/shaft moves around in a roughly circular shape. This way, the sandpaper isn't grinding circles into your workpiece - it's more "random." This type of sander can remove stock fairly quickly (with 60 or 80 grit paper) or can do fairly fine sanding, almost finish sanding, with 220 grit paper. It's handy for sanding across wood joints to even out the surface, remove tool or blade marks, etc, especially on flat surfaces. It's a little harder to use on edges - hard to keep "flat" to the edge and the soft sandpaper backing pad tends to wrap around the corners leading to a slight rounding of the corners. In general though a ROS is a very versatile sander. Some use "sticky" backed sandpaper; others use hook-and-loop (Velcro-like) attachments. I prefer the hook-and-loop; it's easier to remove & re-use the sandpaper.

hand-held circular sander: no random motion so you can easily leave sanding swirl marks (think of vinyl record grooves) in the workpiece. Often this tool is nothing more than a disk & shaft that you chuck into your drill. It's easy to dig arc-shaped gouges into your work if you don't hold the pad flat to the workpiece. These things generally are used to quickly remove stock; they're rarely used for finish work. They are useful for auto body repair work... less so for woodworking in my opinion.

hand-held 1/4 sheet sander: uses a quarter sheet of sandpaper (duh) and basically is the technological predecessor to the ROS. The pad moves rapidly over a very small distance - it buzzes in your hand. Pad sanders remove stock a bit slower than ROS units in general. Some units move the pad fore-aft only, others also have a side-to-side motion. Moving in only one direction can lead to fine scratches in the workpiece, just like the non-random orbit rotating sanders.

Hand-held belt sander: larger, heavier unit running a continuous belt of sandpaper across a flat "platten." These beasts are best at removing a lot of stock quickly. It's (too) easy to rock them slightly angled - not flat against the workpiece; when this happens the edge of the sandpaper quickly grinds a groove/gouge into your work. You'll start sounding like a sailor when this happens to you. The belt is moving one direction only, no side-to-side or "random" so it leaves fine scratches behind.

Spindle sander: Generally a vertical cylinder of sandpaper spinning rapidly; either hanging from a drill press or mounted in a dedicated table - freestanding table or benchtop unit. Spindle sanders are great for cleaning up curved edges, especially inside curves that were cut by bandsaws or jigsaws. The cylinders come in many diameters - from about half an inch to 3 inches is common. So you can match the spindle to the radius of your workpiece. The sandpaper just rotates... leading to the fine scratching again.

Oscillating spindle sander: Besides spinning, the whole cylinder moves up/down once or twice a second, this gives a "random" motion giving a better final finish.

hand-held mouse sander, corner sander, or any of those that have small and specially-shaped sandpaper pads: these are roughly pad sanders that have pads and sandpaper customized to do a special task: reaching into tight corners, etc. Cute idea but I don't think they're really worth the money; other tools are a higher priority. A swatch of sand paper, folded over a piece of scrap wood, can do the same jobs.

Benchtop belt sanders, with or without the circular disk portion: these have been around for a while. They're good for sanding the edge of boards, rounding off corners on the end of boards (disk sander part of tool), and some have enough strength in the belt's end rollers to do some spindle sander duties. They're not too usefull on the flat portion of boards. Like some of the hand-held tools, it's easy to hold the work at something other than a 90 degree angle causing goofy edge angles if you're not careful.

Those benchtop sanders that run skinny sandpaper belts and look like little 3-wheeled bandsaws (I forget their name): I have no idea what these are really useful for. Fine pieces cut with scroll saws or something? I'd probably just hand-sand such workpieces.

The Ridgid oscillating belt/spinder sander is a single benchtop tool that can be set up either as an oscillating spindle sander OR a stationary random belt sander; I think it replaces both the benchtop belt+disk sander and the spindle sanders. Really really neat (and innovative) tool. With the table, it's easy to keep a board perfectly perpendicular to the belt for a true 90 edge; the spindle part works as well as just about any benchtop oscillating spindle sander. The engineering of the tool is first-rate too, with built-in storage for the various accessories, the allen wrench tools, etc.

Drum sander: this is a tool that many folks drool over; few actually have the money or space for one of these machines. Basically think of a conveyor belt running below a cylinder wrapped in sandpaper. The conveyor belt pulls your workpiece past the spinning cylinder. Such tools are great at reducing the thickness of stock, sanding tabletops or other wide things (if you've got one of the monster sized commercial units), etc. If you're familiar with a thickness planer, imagine replacing the blade assembly with a sandpaper covered cylinder.

The ROS is probably the most versatile, then I'd get the Ridgid oscillating belt+spindle unit. A hand-held belt sander is more useful as a home repair tool (rapidly grinding down edges of tight doors, lumps in floors, etc.) than a woodworking tool so I would put it lower on the aquisition priority list. You'll never escape hand sanding for oddball shapes, the final finish sanding jobs, etc. So a comfortable sanding block is worth having as are a few pieces of scrap wood, dowel rods, etc. to wrap paper around for those special jobs.

Notice that some sanders are brought to the workpiece and for others you bring the work to the sander. What type of woodworking do you tend to do - are the workpieces too big to hold to stationary sanders for example?

my (long-winded) opinions anyway.

mpc

[davidtu]

Wow, MPC... that's a great summary... thank you so much!!

I am a newbie. Right now, I am actually doing a lot of home projects... not up to furniture yet! I suppose most folks on here are crafting some great pieces, which I aspire to do at some point. Sounds like the ROS is hands-down the one to get. For doing home repair/carpentry work, it sounds like a belt sander could be useful. The 1/4 sheet sander, which I've borrowed & used, seems like it obsolete based on your comments, so I will not worry about it.

Although that Rigid belt sander looks great to me, it is too costly & as you say the 1/4 sheet sander isn't desirable so I will rule it out. As belt sanders are only moderately useful according to everyone's comments (for woodworking anyway) I will not spend much on that.

My plan, then, is to pick up the Ryobi belt sander, which I have read good things about, and also the Ryobi 5" ROS sander. This would put me at around $150 and right now, HD has a *new* giftcard for $30 on $150 Ryobi products, so combined only $120 or so.

Maybe sometime for the Rigid OSS, that looks great, but I can't justify it now and might catch a sale sometime--full price just doesn't feel good--and I thank no one to remind me that I could get $35 giftcard for it. Thank you.

(in case my conscience is listening, I will be returning about $200 worth of stuff too.)

(now that my conscience has stopped listening, I will probably just spend it on something else... whoops! I heard that!)

[drumpriest]

If we are being all inclusive then, one thing to note. There is a difference between a drum sander and a wide belt sander. When MPC said "monster sized commercial units" he may well have been talking of wide belt sanders. The time saver, for instance, is a wide belt sander.

The difference is that a "drum sander" has sandpaper wrapped around a drum, and a "wide belt sander" is just that, it has a huge belt of sander paper. They both perform the same job, in much the same way, but the cost of the paper is very different.

I've used both, and feel that a drum sander is the way to go for any reasonable shop. Norm's shop is just not reasonable. lol