Biscuit Cutter Alternatives?

[L. D. Jeffries]

WoodHaven sell two siZes of bisquit cutters as well as two siZes
of bisquits. The smaller one is ideal for things like picture frames, etc. The bisquits are just a tad thicker than regular ones; so more strength. A bag of 100 is less than 10 bucks (If u are wondering about the "Z"s, well my lower case Z went south for some reason).

[RodKirby]

From Woodhaven...

http://www.woodhaven.com/detail.aspx?ID=125

[zootroy]

Try that big red QUOTE button at the lower right of the msg you want to quote.

Thanks Larry, I think I got it.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Glue alone is solid. I believe the real advantage to biscuits is in alignment over strength.

I respectfully disagree, though I would bow to the knowledge of others. Alighment with biscuit joiner is nice for simple applications, though certain angles and miter cut joinery seems tougher with biscuits. However, strength of the biscuit joined boards versus glue up . . . there is no comparison.

[AlanJ]

I respectfully disagree, though I would bow to the knowledge of others. Alighment with biscuit joiner is nice for simple applications, though certain angles and miter cut joinery seems tougher with biscuits. However, strength of the biscuit joined boards versus glue up . . . there is no comparison.

From all I've read and experienced, a welll made glue joint is stronger than the wood it joins together. In other words, if you force the joint apart, it will be the wood that gives, not the glue. This indicates that any biscuits involved in the joint are not really adding anything as far as strength is concerned.

Most joint failures are in right angle (corner) joints, where it is possible to exert significant force on the small area of the joint. In this case the biscuits might help - but only to a small degree.

My belief is that biscuits are most useful for alignment and should not be relied on to add strength - even if they do contribute in some scenarios.

[LCHIEN]

My quick add is that I agree with Alan, a good wood glue joint is very strong - that assumes that its not starved and not too thick and both halves have been properly wetted. Only If there is not proper gluing then the biscuit takes on great importance to hold it together.

As for DJB, the alignment function of bisuits is not to be underrated.
If you have not glued up a large panel made of several (more than three boards) you are in for a paperhanging kind of experience. The glue starts to dry in the 1st joint as you try to spread the glue uniformly and wet the second joint. If you clamp it together it takes so many hands because the glue is a lubricant and the parts keep sliding apart as you clamp harder. You line up the second joint and the first joint slips out of kilter when you reduce the pressure to allow line up of the second. Then if you get those two squared away, you try and line up the third. believe me, the other guys can tell you its a lot harder than it seems.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

From all I've read and experienced, a welll made glue joint is stronger than the wood it joins together. In other words, if you force the joint apart, it will be the wood that gives, not the glue. This indicates that any biscuits involved in the joint are not really adding anything as far as strength is concerned.

Most joint failures are in right angle (corner) joints, where it is possible to exert significant force on the small area of the joint. In this case the biscuits might help - but only to a small degree.

My belief is that biscuits are most useful for alignment and should not be relied on to add strength - even if they do contribute in some scenarios.

A well made glue joint can be stronger than the wood it joins together. My understanding is that the failure point is typically very close to the joint, where the glue as not penetrated and hardened. IMHO, biscuits reinforce that stress point making failure at the joint (or near the joint) less likely. Frequently the weakest part of the board is the edges. These edges are joined and if the glue doesn't fail, then the surrounding area does. And I think biscuits solve this issue. Additionally, I believe that Biscuit and glue up is stronger than glue up only. There is more surface area for the glue to adhere to, the absorbent biscuits, the slots themself, etc.
Undoubtedly, either way will work if executed properly. However if biscuits are stronger and make glue up easier . . . .

[LarryG]

You bet biscuits add strength.

Biscuits are in effect small, loose tenons. Would anyone dispute that loose tenons add strength?

As to the question of whether they add necessary strength in all types of joinery, that might well be debatable. Grain direction makes a lot of difference. For a glued-up panel like a table top, where the edges are long-grain to long-grain, biscuits are probably not necessary. But with end-grain joinery -- the corners of a box, or miters, or butt joints -- they add a LOT to the integrity of the connection.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

[QUOTE=LarryG]Biscuits are in effect small, loose tenons. Would anyone dispute that loose tenons add strength?
QUOTE]

Except in tenon joinery the wood does not significantly expand whereas the biscuits expand significantly causing a very TIGHT tenon joint.

[JimD]

I found a router bit to be an OK way to try out biscuits but I think you will want a biscuit jointer if you decide you want to install many biscuits. It is much quicker and generally works better. One disadvantage of the router is the slot doesn't fit the biscuit very well.

Jim