Setting up the Craftsman 218290 for serious routing

[Fried Chicken]

Currently in the honeymoon phase with the table saw, but one of the things I know I will need is a serious routing setup.
The Craftsman routing table I got with the unit doesn't feel like it's as good a design as the original Ryobi looks. Worse, it's not compatible with my Porter Cable routers,
and I'm currently running with an included Ryobi router.

I can see NOS router and jig saw mounting kits available on eBay for $130-$150, but it looks like they're compatible with the Ryobi router mount.

I'm additionally seeing TWO router mount types, one with a flat area around the router opening, and one with the striped pattern.
As an example, this one with the flat area: https://www.ebay.com/itm/135026918558, and this one with the striped lines: https://www.ebay.com/itm/285868571305.

I'd need the one with the flat area.

Are these compatible with the Craftsman rails? Will they set flush with the gray craftsman tops? Is there a way to mount a porter cable router to these? I remember reading about this in the FAQ and I will check when I'm not on my lunch break. The Router and Jigsaw mounting kit comes with the vacuum hose attachment pipe, correct?

If this can work reliably and give me good clean cuts, I will be besides myself more than I already am about this table saw.
I already listed the router table I had for sale, and my old table saw is going for sale soon.

Thanks!

[LCHIEN]

Ah, here's some of my thoughts.

The original BT3000/3100 aux/router table were thin and the mounting of a router required a 1/4" thick aluminum router mounting plate that could be custom drilled to match any router, then the router and plate would be fastened to the table on the four mounting points made for it. I don't really know the difference between the two aux tables you showed with the ribs around the router hole or no ribs, can't imagine it makes much difference. Mine is fully ribbed (both of them). I think the one with the no-rib area is an older revision; the all-ribs is newer. Looking at the images of BT3000s I see most have the all-ribs, and the BT3100s are all-ribs.

The 21829 saw has a different aux table in some ways. It is still fully fit to the same rail system height and and spacing as the BT3000/3100. It has I think two miter slots but they CANNOT be used with the table saw for sawing because there is no way to make sure the slots are consistently parallel to the blade. I do think the 22811 and 211829 Craftsman models did away with the router mounting plate and only has bosses for mounting specific craftsman routers which make mounting other routers difficult.

On the BT3000.BT3100 versions there is a lock to the front rail on top. However the rear of the aux table is not clamped to the rear rail as it comes from the factory, so it can swing a small amount, not a problem if you are using it for table saw support. However it is a problem if the aux table has a router mounted and you plan to use the rip fence as a router fence. For that, you are expected to use the rear clamp that comes in the router kit. Otherwise the router can move back and forth from the fence and gouge your work. If you only use the router for roundovers and bevels - bits with bearings and don't use the fence you don't need the clamp. I'm sure the 21829 and 22811 saws need the clamp as well.

For sale at Amazon.


The 21829 user manual shows that the router fence parts come with the saw, not a optional kit as with the Ryobi versions.


I have a router kit but I never used the fence components meant to mount to the saw rip fence. I thought it was too fussy. I once had a router mounted I used for bevels and roundovers but I have since evolved to a full router table with a router lift that adjusts fully from above the table.

Again, my FAQ has a section on routers and a paragraph on the 21829 router table.

[Fried Chicken]

Hey Loring, from my research it looks like you're right, the non-ribbed surface is an older revision. I happen to quite like it - more precision for the routes made in all directions.

My craftsman's router mount indeed has the miter slots. I don't like the design with the mounting holes so close to the main router hole. I will look for that original table. The hole pattern supports an existing ryobi router but not my porter cable router. The router mounting kit comes with a back lock, and then mounts to the existing table saw fence?

What router table do you have? The ones I can find new all look terrible and/or overpriced terrible.

[LCHIEN]

...

What router table do you have? The ones I can find new all look terrible and/or overpriced terrible.

I bought a premade router table top precut for woodpecker plates... the size is used by others.
I mounted it to a four legged table I made.
I attached a Bosch 1617 fixed speed router to the plate and one of those $15 motor speed controllers. Used it for several years.
Later I got a Jessem router raizer that accepts the router body of the Bosch which is the same diameter as PCs and some other popular routers. The plate they made is the same as the woodpecker plate.
I made a couple of router fences of my own - I just clamp them to the table at the ends. Nothing fancy.

...

My craftsman's router mount indeed has the miter slots. I don't like the design with the mounting holes so close to the main router hole. I will look for that original table. The hole pattern supports an existing ryobi router but not my porter cable router. The router mounting kit comes with a back lock, and then mounts to the existing table saw fence?

The router table needs to be locked to the back rail as well as the front rail when routing using the rip fence as the router fence. otherwise the back and can move fractionally and spoil your cut.

People have said (and this is from a few years back) that they simply drilled the 21829 router table for their router and found enough "meat" for the holes which have to be counter sunk. Its my recollection that the 21829 router table bottom has thicker bosses at the mounting holes (for the craftsman router) to support the countersinking.
I was going to confirm that if you post some pictures of the bottom I requested.

[cwsmith]

Personally speaking, I did not find the router table on my BT3100 to be all that useful for serious routing. I had a Ryobi table top router, but even as a beginner I thought it was just poorly designed. The BT3100 was better, but it was just too small and I don't particularly care for shared-purpose tools. My BT3100 is a great table saw (purchase in 2005), but I use it only as a 'table saw'.

For routing, I purchased a dedicated table top with fence, mounting plate, and accessories from Rockler, made my own leg set from 2 x 4 stock, and even mounted some wheels on it for portability. That has served me quite well for anything I have needed.

I like my tools independant of each other, so I can move from one operation to another without having to dismantle or set up.

CWS

[LCHIEN]

I concur, sharing a router and table saw is a bit inconvenient sometimes... I go back and forth when making boxes and stuff, the loss of setup when doing both on one table and one shared fence is awkwards sometimes. The small table, the awkwardness of having to reach below the table to adjust the router, and the finicky-ness of the fence setup are negatives.

The biggest advantage to using the BT3000's router table for routers is the space saving in the shop.

[Fried Chicken]

The shared machine doesn't bother me in the least. The extra room makes it worth it, and the moveability/foldability as well. I keep all my tools in a backyard shed, bringing them to the garage when I need them. As such having one unit I can wheel in and out... it's so perfect, so excellent. Maybe I should get a dedicated router fence.

Are you suggesting I keep the craftsman top and drill holes for the porter cable router? It's an option. I have two.

[LCHIEN]

The shared machine doesn't bother me in the least. The extra room makes it worth it, and the moveability/foldability as well. I keep all my tools in a backyard shed, bringing them to the garage when I need them. As such having one unit I can wheel in and out... it's so perfect, so excellent. Maybe I should get a dedicated router fence.

Are you suggesting I keep the craftsman top and drill holes for the porter cable router? It's an option. I have two.

That is an option. I'd still like to see a picture of the underside of the Craftsman table before I fully endorse that.
OTOH, two aux/router tables on the BT3 is handy - I have two for the extra support space on the saw.

[cwsmith]

Fried Chicken,

I agree with you regarding the convenience of mobility and the necessity of multi-tasking a machine for the sake of consolidation your work area. I wasn't critizing your choice, just offering an opinion .

I went through that a number of years at my last house. My basement had an all too low ceiling and moisture problems. My only power large power tools at the time were my RAS, a few bench-top Ryobi power tools (including their little router table) and my BT3100. All of which I kept in a metal lawn shed and would haul out to my deck for setup and use. Frustrating at times. When we moved here we had a much larger, useable basement, but sawdust was a problem; and finally, I purchased one of those Amish-built sheds which works much better for my occasional woodworking needs. It's 12 x 20 which isn't particularly large, but it works.

CWS

[Fried Chicken]

That is an option. I'd still like to see a picture of the underside of the Craftsman table before I fully endorse that.
OTOH, two aux/router tables on the BT3 is handy - I have two for the extra support space on the saw.

I'll get some pics. I took a break today.
I really like the idea of an unmolested surface, like offered by the OG ryobi one (without the lines).
It's occurred to me I could get a second fence as well for use with the router. The Craftsman has a convenient carrying thing for it. What a fantastic machine.

[LCHIEN]

...
It's occurred to me I could get a second fence as well for use with the router. The Craftsman has a convenient carrying thing for it. What a fantastic machine.

Yes, a second rip fence would certainly be a good option to leave the router fence permanently set up.

[mpc]

Search this site and the Internet in general for table saw mounted router tables to get some ideas. The "router table" plate that is part of the BT3/21829 series table saws is somewhat small for a router table and does not lend itself to much dust collection. Consider using a 3/4 inch plywood sheet, or two 1/2 or 3/4 sheets glued face-to-face, to make a router tabletop that mounts to the table saw rails. This site has several examples showing how to mount/clamp stuff to the table saw fence rails. "T-nuts" that fit the rails (they act like nuts for knobs/bolts) make it easy to use "L"shaped brackets or aluminum angle stock for example. With a wood/melamine/laminate router table top you can include T-slots or miter track for hold-downs, a miter gauge, featherboards, etc. And, rather than bolting the router to the underside of the tabletop, cut a rectangular opening for a "router plate." Router plates are 1/4 to 3/8ths thick metal or phenolic (metal is stiffer but more expensive) rectangular pieces that are available pre-drilled to accept most common routers. What is nice about having a router plate is it makes bit changes and adjusting the bit heights MUCH easier: you can lift the plate and router straight up to remove them from the table and lay them sideways on a workbench. Using the router's collet wrenches that way is a lot easier than trying to do it from below a table saw table. Your forehead will appreciate it too as it won't be bashed into the corners of the table and/or fence rails.

One thing about router plates: they come in several sizes; there are 2 or 3 "standards" out there. It's like the situation with cordless power tools: once you buy one brand you are somewhat forced to stick with that brand if you want to be able to share batteries between different tools. I use the Rockler plates as they have a good store not far from me. And Incra (a manufacturer/seller of all sorts of cool but often pricey woodworking accessories) makes a version of their really sweet router lift that matches the Rockler plates in length and width... too bad it's thicker than the Rockler metal plates. I made a shim/spacer so I can use my stash of Rockler plates if/when the Incra lift isn't installed in the router table. Which is exceedingly rare.

With a wood router table, you can also make slots in it running perpendicular to the fence as a way to mount a dedicated and shop-built router table fence. Or you can install T-tracks. Router table fences can be anywhere from a straight board with a half-circle cutout (aka "mouse hole") for the router bit, to simple "L" shaped versions (taller than 2x4s!) with mouse holes, to more complex versions that have adjustable fence faces so you can close the fence faces right up to the edges of the router bit. Mouse holes need to be sized for the largest bit you plan to use... thus many times they're larger than necessary unless you make several fences with different sized mouse holes. When using the table saw rip fence as the router fence you'll find it does not work as-is: there is no mouse hole! So you have to make something to attach to the table saw rip fence. You could just as easily make the router fence independent of the table saw rip fence using slots, T-tracks, or simply clamping it to the router tabletop. That way you don't loose the table saw rip fence setting/position just because you need it for a router operation.

Woodworking supply stores (Rockler, Woodcraft, etc.) sell all sorts of gizmos to attach shop vac hoses to router table fences, drill press fences, etc. These work well to capture sawdust from many common router bits. Another simple thing is to build a cube shaped box underneath the router table, surrounding the router, with another port for a vacuum or dust collector to capture sawdust that falls straight down from the router bit. Rockler sells an aluminum box... use it as an example of what you might want to make. The only time a fence dust port + box dust port fail to work well is when using the router table to make a dado or groove cut: a cut that does not go all the way through the workpiece and is not along an edge of the workpiece. Cuts not along the workpiece edge renders fence dust collection useless... and dust collection below the bit generally isn't strong enough to grab most of the sawdust... it instead travels through the dado/groove and blasts out the side of your router table. Rockler sells a gizmo that attaches to the side of your router table to help catch this stuff. Look for it on their website to see pictures showing what I mean about sawdust blasting through dado/groove cuts. You don't need this gizmo - just look at the pics to see the blasted sawdust I described.

If you have space: an option for the saws were extension rails that allowed larger cut capacity. Many folks bought a set of extension rails and found they were too long - making the assembled saw rather awkward - and longer than needed. A common trick was to cut them in half and sell the other half. Half rails are ideal length for table saw + router table combinations. Ryobi sold special hardware to attach extension rails but there are other ways; a few have been posted on this site.

mpc

[Fried Chicken]

I've got some pictures of the craftsman router plate. It looks like it's not particularly thick, it only has support for where the screws go. I think the original idea of the original BT3000 flat surface router plate with with the router accessory it is a good idea. I can drill my own holes for the porter cable router pretty easily, and then get an additional fence for all the router attachments. This should make a pretty elegant solution. Unfortunately between the router accessory kit, the plate, and an extra fence, I can see the prices creeping up. Maybe someone on this site has these parts available, saving the ebay fees.

mpc, the craftsman already comes with somewhat longer rails. I think I can get away with attaching another plate to them without causing me a headache. I'm not sure how they compare to the extension rails cut in half. I'm starting to compile a parts list for what I need.

So far It looks like:

1. BT3000 router plate that's smooth,
2. Router accessory kit
3. Extra dedicated fence for mounting router parts to
4. Wrenches for removing the blade
5. Riving knife/other safety pieces

As an alternative, a dedicated router plate from Rockler or Incra, however these are quite expensive, and i'm not sure will fit the router plate. I'd have to build my own solution, however since I'm staring a perfecftly good pre-made solution in the face, I think I will go with the Ryobi OEM.

[LCHIEN]

The 21829 rails were about 5-6 inches longer than the BT3x or 22811 rails which were 42 inches long.

From the looks of it, the 21829 router table you pictured has some holes pre-located.


The three holes I tagged here look to my eye like they are the holes for the popular Bosch/Porter Cable/Dewalt/Milwaukee routers.

On my Bosch router base I measure 3.858" edge to edge and 0.144" hole diameter which makes the center-center distance 4.000 inches. So that should be easy for you to verify.
The attached router plate hole patterns shows the Dewalt 618, Bosch 1617, the Porter cable 690 (and 890) series, the Milwaukee 5600 series are all the same (A).

Using the holes provided has the benefit that there are thickened "bosses" for the screw and countersink, and that they should be accurately drilled. Personally I'd say this is the way to go if you have the PC 690 or 890 style routers and want to use them. You'd still have to get the Ryobi mounting plate and drill holes if you wanted to mount a router to the OG Ryobi table.

My other recommendation to mount ANY router would be to mount the router to a 1/4 or 3/8" plywood board and then mount the plywood board to the outer four existing mounting holes in the table. You can do this for either the Craftsman 21829 router table or the old style Ryobi BT3 router tables if you don't have the aluminum mounting plate. I can elaborate on this if you want but I could type on for a long time, so ask if you want to do this.

As for the blade wrenches, the Blade usually takes a 3/4" combination Wrench or open end wrench. The nuts for the blade guard take a 1/2" combination or open end wrench. You don't need the flat wrenches that come with the saw except for one thing... the bottom end of either is used to lock the arbor while turning the arbor nut. I know of no off the shelf wrench that can do this. In any case you really only need one for the arbor lock function and then you can use one from your tool box (or pick one odd one up at a pawn shop for $1-2).

[Fried Chicken]

I appreciate the detail in the post. The three holes you pointed out, those unfortunately do not fit the porter cable router. They are too far apart.

I actually have a piece of mahogany I could use, but then I still end up with a router table with holes where I don't want them. This is a problem for some of the stuff I'm looking to route - it requires a special precision.

It looks like I need to get those wrenches, as I can't think of anything that will lock the arbor nut while I take the current blade off.
I do have a pieceo of 1/2" mahogany I might be able ot use as the router attachment base, but I would need threaded inserts to use the existing hardware. I'll see. A replacement router plate isn't too expensive, and it would give me more table surface area, so that's really not the sticking point.... Unfortunately the additional fence and router kit don't look cheap.

[LCHIEN]

Threaded inserts for wood are available at Lowes, Ace, Home Depot cheaply. To make secure threads for machine bolts to hold wood.

They come in standard SAE threads like 1/4-20, 10-24, 8-32, 6-32 I think 8-32 are used for routers. There's a specified hole in the wood to drill then you use the hex recess to thread these into the wood. Also metric are available if you want.

You want as thin a board as you can but still be stiff enough not to flex. Too thick and it takes away your routing depth. unless you countersink the entire router into the board... Don't forget you have the table and boss thickness, the wood thickness vs a usual plastic router scuff plate of about 3/16 to 1/4" thick
Alternatively, you can use T-nuts; drill a slightly oversized hole, and insert from the bottom of your wood and hammered into place.



What model PC router do you have???

What is the hole-center to hole center distance of the three hole pattern on that table?

STANDARD 3-HOLE PATTERN
Bosch MRC23 Series, 1617-1618
DeWalt 616-618
Hitachi M12VC (fixed and kit)
Makita 1100
Milwaukee 5615-5624
Porter-Cable 690, 890,
7529, 97529 and 8529
Ridgid 2930 Combo Kit