3D Printing for Discontinued SMT "A" Slide?

[atgcpaul]

Is this issue still alive?

Need some dimensions of an actual printed part to see if the Slide maintains it's dimensions, or if there is shrinkage as an earlier post predicted.

CWS

I'm having another go at them today. My first print today failed--the head clogged--so I'm trying again. The biggest issue I have right now is that I have to print a support layer under the actual part or it starts to curl on the bed. That support layer is fused to the part which makes it thicker than it should be. I guess it could be sanded off.

I downloaded the newest Sketchups and in Slide A it does still seem like the top part is a separate component from the base. Slide B seems to be even more fragmented. I don't know how to get rid of all the components so it can be made into one solid, though.

[cwsmith]

atgcpaul,

I don't know the problem, but I'm sure it is on my end of things. The drawing in SketchUp just doesn't seem to be converting properly. In SketchUp it looks fine, but today I started playing with AutoDesk's "123Design" and the intructions say that I can import the 'STL' file.... but when I do, Slide B doesn't come in at all, and Slide A shows only the top protrusions, with the base showing below the plain.

Obviously this needs more work on my end, so hold off for a bit and I'll see what I can tweak to make it right. I would have never thought it to be that hard, but I'm learning as I go along.

CWS

[atgcpaul]

atgcpaul,

I don't know the problem, but I'm sure it is on my end of things. The drawing in SketchUp just doesn't seem to be converting properly. In SketchUp it looks fine, but today I started playing with AutoDesk's "123Design" and the intructions say that I can import the 'STL' file.... but when I do, Slide B doesn't come in at all, and Slide A shows only the top protrusions, with the base showing below the plain.

Obviously this needs more work on my end, so hold off for a bit and I'll see what I can tweak to make it right. I would have never thought it to be that hard, but I'm learning as I go along.

CWS

Yes, I forgot to mention that I couldn't import Slide B into the Makerbot software. I ended up exporting the STL again from Sketchup. However, the print didn't look right. I'll try to take a picture of it when I get home. Slide A printed OK and I'm going to print off 6 more before I leave for the day. I'm taking the successful print home to measure it.

[atgcpaul]

The last print came out very nice. Almost all the measurements are within a few mils of the PDF drawing. The only one that was a little long was the left to right width. I got 0.875" instead of 0.867".

Hopefully the ones I'm printing overnight will be OK. CWS and Hank, I can send some of these to you for testing/measuring. I don't own a BT3 anymore. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll drop them in the mail.

Slide B will definitely be a challenge, but I think that needs new drawings before I can attempt it.

Paul

[leehljp]

The last print came out very nice. Almost all the measurements are within a few mils of the PDF drawing. The only one that was a little long was the left to right width. I got 0.875" instead of 0.867".

Hopefully the ones I'm printing overnight will be OK. CWS and Hank, I can send some of these to you for testing/measuring. I don't own a BT3 anymore. If you're interested, PM me your address and I'll drop them in the mail.

Slide B will definitely be a challenge, but I think that needs new drawings before I can attempt it.

Paul

PM sent. I have 3 functioning SMTs. I will be glad to test it.

[Wildwillis]

Although the part is a whole component in Sketchup, I thought it was strange that the pillars were a darker color than the rest of the base. I wonder if that's got something to do with the pillars not printing for you.

Wildwillis,

Thanks for joining in here. That was very helpful and I'll look into it, so greatly appreciate your posting.

I've been playing with SketchUP for several versions now, first taking interest back in version ten or so years ago (IIRC) soon after Google introduced it. At one time I thought I was fairly good at it, using it mostly for visualizing objects. I am far more efficient with using Corel Draw for my illustration work (but CorelDraw doesn't do 3D).

With regard to the SketchUP program doing 'solids', last year's (2015) version, under the 'Tools' heading has a 'Solid Tools (Pro Only)' heading. I was not aware that there was an extension that you could add. I'll look into the link that you provided.

Decades ago I tried a version of AutoCad but it seemed far more complicated than necessary (it was probably an initial version, back in the early 70's.) Problem for me was that all the dimensions were oriented off a central 'index'... the way perhaps that one needs for CNC indexing, but not the way I had ever drafted in high school or later in night school. Micrographx Designer and later CorelDraw closer matched my drawing board experience and as a Technical Illustrator, the latter two programs were a much better fit to my chosen profession.

BTW, I'm down here in Binghamton, so welcome neighbor!

Thanks again,

CWS

Happy I could provide a little help! Looks like you guys are making some progress.

Looks like you may have have figured this out, but if of I think I can help with the issue you were having with those pillars. If they look dark in your Sketchup model you likely have "inside" and outside faces reversed on those pillars. Again, not an expert by any means but I learned through the same type of issue (with using cylinders to cut out holes) that solids have inside and outside faces in SketchUp. The inside faces are darker. I think just a right-click on one of those faces gives an option to "reverse face." I think that will solve your issue with those.

Sorry that I can't provide much specific help by trying anything out in SketchUp because my computer is completely out of hard disk space. The wife has gotten a bit picture/video crazy with the baby lately so I need to clean it up. I haven't tried SketchUp 2016 yet, but I started using the non-profit version of 2014 and then used 2015 a little. I saw the solid tools toolbar in the pro version at the library but my understanding is that those primarily just speed some things up. I would just draw 2D rectangles, circles, etc and use the extrude tool to give them height. From there I'd generally multi-select those shapes and make components. To remove shapes I'd usually intersect faces between a non-component and a component, then explode the component and delete what wasn't needed. Sounds like you guys have most of that figured out already, but perhaps it's helpful if you try working without those solid tools.

CWS - Glad to see someone relatively close by! If you want to try out a 3D printer yourself, the Fayetteville Free Public library has a "Fab Lab" with a handful of Makerbots you can use for free. You only have to pay $0.05 per gram for the plastic whem you print something. It's super cheap and they won't even charge you if it doesn't print out properly. They have SketchUp on the computers if you need to make changes while you're there (although I had to add the SLT export plugin) and I believe they have D
Solid Works as well. You can reserve the printers so definitely do that first if you consider making the drive.

And finally, I can echo some of the other comments and concerns with warping and accuracy from my (likited) experience. I do think the abs plastic would be sufficient though. I'd probably print that solid (no honeycomb inside) by changing the options in the Makerbot software before you print to 100% infill. I'd probably try over dimensioning some things (selecctively) as well and just plan to sand it down afterwards. I mostly saw occasional usages at corners on the base of parts. I think it was the A side parts that would need to be printed with a lot bridging (might be the wrong term) since the base doesn't sit flat. The software has an option to automatically determine and add that but I don't have much experience to say if I think that would work well or not. She B side shouldn't be much trouble though I don't think. Sorry long post but hopefully some of it will be helpful!

[cwsmith]

Paul,

That slide looks very good.

I sent you a PM with my address and phone. I also went back to check the SketchUp drawing for dimensions, just in case I made a mistake.

That dimension is critical to the point that it is that distance, anchored by the mounting bolt (one pivot and three adjustable eccentric) with the outer edge of the slide resting against the aluminum slide (that long extruded part that the top table is mounted to). If the dimension is beyond the 0.867 dimension then you won't be able to mount it without trimming. If it is too short, then the table will be able to move from side-to-side and that extra movement or 'slop' will not be taken out by adjustin the ecentric bolts.

So, I'm going to redesign the two slides. Slide A is really okay the way it is, but slide B has that protruding pin on the bottom which is a challenge for 3D printing. I think if we remove that pin and replace it with a slot instead, then "B" will be an easy print. On "A", we'll take that notch out of those "pillars" and make it a pin or higher protrusion that with make with the new slot we've made on "A". The locating function between "A" and "B" will still be there, only reversed. I doubt that I will get that today, but will try.

Hope you have a great day and thanks for all your efforts,


CWS

[cwsmith]

Attached is a Zip file containing six files; one each Slides A and B SketchUp files, one each of Slides A and B exported from SketchUp as STL solids, and one each of Slides A and B after the SketchUP exported STL files were imported into AutoDesk's 123Design and then exported as STL solids.

Hopefully the last file set from '123Design' will have better structure as everything in that program is a 'solid'. Here are two screen shots of what the 123Design Slides look like:



I'm not sure what the various faint line across the face of both of these indicate, but that's what appears on the screen. Hopefully it doesn't effect the output.

Also, I've been thinking about the challenge of printing Slide B, with the protrusions on the bottom I would think printing would be a problem. Here's a profile of how they fit together to provide a sliding guide for the SMT table over the bottom tray (the long black aluminum plate.



Note that the pins and edge protrusions are removed from Slide B to make the bottom of it flat. A small groove at the edge is added on each side, but it is narrow enough that hopefully the printed fiber can bridge it. The base is slightly thicker to maintain the original's thickness. Slide A has the original groove in the 'pillars' removed and a protrusion added to fit into the new groove of Slide B. The 'pillars' are raised slightly so as to diminish any clamping on the guide rail that might be caused by removal of the edge protrusion on the original Slide B. (Without that "edge", there's more surface on the redesign to contact the bottom tray.

Do any of you see any problems with this? If not, I'll make new 3D drawings so we might be able to print and test it.

Thanks,

CWS

[atgcpaul]

So this file doesn't contain the new designs, right? I will send you a PM.

[cwsmith]

I received a small package of "Slides" from Paul on Saturday and I think we have a winner here, at least with the BT3 Slide A which I understand is no longer available from normal supply avenues.

While Slide B examples are definitely a problem with protrusions on both sides; the Slide A challenge seems to be successfully accomplished. Paul printed a half-dozen examples of Slide A and they are all dimensionally consistent. Checking them against the original and the detail drawing, they are very close, but slightly oversized about 0.005" in some dimensions. Mainly the bottom thickness was 0.119 instead of 0.114. and thus the overall thickness effected. That could very well be the result of a couple of conversions exporting the original SketchUp drawing to Metric via the conversion to print-compatible "STL" file format. Never the less, it seemed to work very well once mounted. About the only work required to get the new printed Slide to fit was to ream the center hole with a small file. I can revise the SketchUp drawing to make make up for the print difference I think.

I'll now finish up my redesign of both Slide A and Slide B, mostly to make Slide B printable. That way we can have a new set (A and B) to print when Paul returns from his vacation.

So, I think we have a viable solution to any manufactured shortage of this part: 3D print them!

Here are a few photos to see the new part and how well it fits:




Lee,

Did you receive any of these from Paul and if so, have you had a chance to try them on one of your SMT's?

CWS

[Pappy]

Been watching this thread with interest. I have 2 SMT's and need to rebuild both of them. Hopefully the cost for slide A won't be prohibitive. Slide B is still available on E Bay and through other venders.

[cwsmith]

Pappy,

I do not have the actual cost of such 3D printing. From what little I understand of it, the cost of the plastic filament should be very little. (Depending on the material [PLA or ABS] I would think it's a matter of a few cents.) Factoring in the cost of any printer time charges, etc. that may raise the charge. For anyone with a 3D printer, we've posted the actual file and detailed drawings. The drawings are in PDF format for anyone to download and print and the 3D Solids file for the printer have also been posted.

Once we have the final drawing details worked out, we'll make the details clear. With the files in hand, one might well be able to go to any family, friend, library or other local source to print them out yourself. (I haven't had the time to see what might be available here in my area, but the popularity is growing so I'm hoping there will be a local 3D printing source in almost any area.)

When Paul returns from his vacation he can give us some idea of the cost.

CWS

[capncarl]

Now that y'all have worked out the 3D printing problem and can create shims at will I want to pose this question. Couldn't this shim be cut out of the proper plastic with a 3D router? I was watching one of my neighbors playing with his 3D router yesterday and this question just became obvious. They have built their own machines and are working on building 3D router components for sale. If my milling machine did not have a bunch of slop I would consider putting one of their controllers and servo packages on it.
capncarl

[atgcpaul]

I received a small package of "Slides" from Paul on Saturday and I think we have a winner here, at least with the BT3 Slide A which I understand is no longer available from normal supply avenues.

OK, I'm confused. I never had to take apart my SMT and it's been years since I owned a BT3. I guess I pictured Slide A and B sliding past each other. I didn't realize they were fixed together with that eccentric screw. Could you provide a zoomed out view? I think I know what I'm looking at but I'm not sure. My question is why is it important that these two pieces be two pieces? Why couldn't it be a solid piece with a hole through the middle and a slot on one side? Why is a there a slot on the other side? What purpose do the two ovals on top of Slide B serve? Just keeps whatever sits on Slide B from touching the head of the screw? I'm guessing I'm actually looking at the bottom of the SMT, right?

Before you commit to the 3D printed stuff, I think it would be good to put the SMT through its paces and see how durable Slide A is. Why does Slide A break in the first place?

I do not have the actual cost of such 3D printing. From what little I understand of it, the cost of the plastic filament should be very little. (Depending on the material [PLA or ABS] I would think it's a matter of a few cents.) Factoring in the cost of any printer time charges, etc. that may raise the charge. For anyone with a 3D printer, we've posted the actual file and detailed drawings. The drawings are in PDF format for anyone to download and print and the 3D Solids file for the printer have also been posted.

Once we have the final drawing details worked out, we'll make the details clear. With the files in hand, one might well be able to go to any family, friend, library or other local source to print them out yourself. (I haven't had the time to see what might be available here in my area, but the popularity is growing so I'm hoping there will be a local 3D printing source in almost any area.)

When Paul returns from his vacation he can give us some idea of the cost.

Still on vacation (coming home tomorrow but doing this keeps me out of bag packing duties). I don't have an exact figure for how much the part would cost but I think I can confidently say I spent more on shipping than printing all the parts I sent to CWS and Lee so pennies a part (if you don't include print time, modeling, maintenance, etc). If you do end up having someone print these for you, it should be cheap, but there's probably a minimum charge so print a bunch at a time. There are 3D printing services like Shapeways and 3DHubs that can set you up. I used PLA plastic on a Makerbot 2X. The last print I did, I think, had 6 of these on the printer bed. I could actually fit many more than that. I can post that x3g file if someone wants it. It will have my the temp and filament settings. I can't, however, be the part provider. Not my printer and I'm doing this at work and only as a learning experience.

Now that y'all have worked out the 3D printing problem and can create shims at will I want to pose this question. Couldn't this shim be cut out of the proper plastic with a 3D router? I was watching one of my neighbors playing with his 3D router yesterday and this question just became obvious. They have built their own machines and are working on building 3D router components for sale. If my milling machine did not have a bunch of slop I would consider putting one of their controllers and servo packages on it.
capncarl

I asked the machinist at work this question. Part A definitely could be but the little nubs on Part B would be very difficult. He's convinced the originals were injection molded because of those little nubs. Very difficult to hold a small piece like that and mill it out. I asked him how much injection molding would be. He replied "a few pennies for the part but the mold would be about $12K."

Paul

[leehljp]

I got my slide today (Monday) and will be able to try it out Wednesday.