what's so special?

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  • DeuceLee
    Forum Newbie
    • Jan 2008
    • 47

    what's so special?

    hey guys, pardon my ignorance because i don't know but what's so special about the BT3000?
  • Pappy
    The Full Monte
    • Dec 2002
    • 10453
    • San Marcos, TX, USA.
    • BT3000 (x2)

    #2
    When the BT3000, and later the 3100, was in production it was far and away the most accurate of the saws marketed for the home woodworker. It maintained a degreee of portability close to that of bench top saws with capabilities similar to a contractor saw.

    It was, to the best of my knowledge, the only saw at the time that had a dedicated user forum set up and maintained by the manufacturer. That furum fell into disrepair, with a lot of technical problems, toward the end of production of the 3000. That led to the developement of samconder.com, a.k.a. bt3central.com, with about 15 - 20 original members. Altough it gave us a place to gather and share information about the BT3000, the forum was always open to anyone with an interested in creating sawdust.

    The BT3000/3100 was ridiculed by the cast iron traditionalists as an aluminum 'toy saw' that required daily maintenance just to get a decent cut and could under no circumstances be considered a real tool capable of producing anything of merit or value. A professional woodworker/artisan known as Dave in Carnes repeatedly dispelled that idea with hs one-off custom creations. One of his best known was the 'Tsunami Chest' that was built and donated to charity and sold at auction for the reliefe fund. Maybe someon else will remember the final bid, but I think it went well into a five figure number. About the only 2 things the BT couldn't do that their cast iron behemoths could was handle having heavy stock being slammed on it all day.....And rust.

    With the lack of miter slots and its sliding miter table (Jet was given a inovation award by on of the magizines for adding one to a lower end saw some 15 years later) the BT3 reqired some inovated thinking to develop jigs and accessories to enhance its capabilities. The sharing of ideas and solutions, along with being shunned by those that owned 'real' table saws, brought BT3 owners together in an almost cult like setting.

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    Last edited by Pappy; 05-15-2011, 07:07 AM.
    Don, aka Pappy,

    Wise men talk because they have something to say,
    Fools because they have to say something.
    Plato

    Comment

    • Pappy
      The Full Monte
      • Dec 2002
      • 10453
      • San Marcos, TX, USA.
      • BT3000 (x2)

      #3
      That was the long answer. Short answer.....

      It's like riding a Harley. If you have to ask, you won't understand.
      Don, aka Pappy,

      Wise men talk because they have something to say,
      Fools because they have to say something.
      Plato

      Comment

      • LCHIEN
        Internet Fact Checker
        • Dec 2002
        • 20914
        • Katy, TX, USA.
        • BT3000 vintage 1999

        #4
        The following is an excerpt from my BT3 FAQ, first question.


        The users of the BT3000 and BT3100 saws consider them to be exceptionally high value for the money. The saw gets consistent praise (semi-ordered by importance) for:
         The sliding miter table, which gives smooth solid support for crosscuts and on other saws costing $500 and up is an optional accessory sold for hundreds of dollars.
         The rip fence, that locks solidly at both ends due whereas most saws costing $500 and up only lock at one end and you can push it and measure the deflection at the other end in fractions of an inch.
         A very good Freud stock blade that some claim gives glue-joint ready rips.
         Lightweight rust-proof table and lightweight motor make for a saw which can be used and moved in a relatively small shop yet the sliding adjustable tables and rail system makes supporting larger rips and crosscuts easy to do while giving a small storage footprint.
         Modular rails and tables and fences have lots of places to attach things and makes possible ingenious custom jigs, plus lots of available accessories.
         Generous cut depth and crosscut capacity for an inexpensive saw
         The above features resulting in smooth, clean, accurate cuts at a low retail price point (originally less than $550 and reduced over time to less than $300).
         Out of the box thinking which makes the elements come together in a sum-of-the-parts-is bigger-than-the-whole way.
         You get the resources of the www.BT3Central.com forum group for support. Huge user base est. to be nearly a million saws, lots of spare parts available as a result.

        Things not to like about the saw:
         It’s not a real heavy-duty machine – you can’t throw oak 4x4’s on it all day long and rip them continuously. The motor is really up to intermittent work like a hobbyist would do. A contractor, no. A serious professional custom furniture maker, yes.
         It doesn’t weigh 250 pounds – it only weighs around 110 pounds.
         Plastic and aluminum parts – requiring care to last a long time
         Minor Design issues in the original saws, since corrected (shims, switches)

        Things it gets a bad rap for which aren’t really so bad:
         Direct drive – no, it actually has a belt drive motor
         Universal motor – well, yes its true and that’s why its not heavy duty as mentioned above. But it is powerful – a 15Amp motor when properly supplied with electricity and wood can rip a full 3-9/16th inch deep.
         Noisier than other saws – well, by itself, yes, but not really when cutting wood and running a shop vac
         Won’t stay aligned – most users have actually found it to be very stable in that regard
        Last edited by LCHIEN; 05-15-2011, 09:36 AM.
        Loring in Katy, TX USA
        If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
        BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

        Comment

        • DeuceLee
          Forum Newbie
          • Jan 2008
          • 47

          #5
          thanks for the info guys...good to know...

          i was steered to your site by your hot bargain alerts forum that was very hot a year or two ago...seems to be slowing down a lil bit, i try to add to it if i find a good deal...

          anyways, i don't know guys, call me new school but it seems like the bt3K is snowly becoming a classic car...doesn't seem like it'll appeal to people lookin for a new saw especially if they have money to spend...well, my TS3650 is still treating me well...if i have any family members looking for a cheap good quality saw, i'll let them know to check out a bt3k on CL...thx

          Comment

          • LCHIEN
            Internet Fact Checker
            • Dec 2002
            • 20914
            • Katy, TX, USA.
            • BT3000 vintage 1999

            #6
            you can still get them new thru Sears as the 21829 but yeah the big run is over and its become somewhat of an eclectic classic. I'm guessing somewhere near a million were sold.

            Theres lots of reasons for a new saw buyer to buy other saws now, but those who like to tinker, aren't afraid of being looked down upon by other saw owners, and looking for that eclectic bargain could do well looking at the used ones on CL.
            Last edited by LCHIEN; 10-11-2011, 08:12 AM.
            Loring in Katy, TX USA
            If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
            BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

            Comment

            • Bruce Cohen
              Veteran Member
              • May 2003
              • 2698
              • Nanuet, NY, USA.
              • BT3100

              #7
              Hey Don,
              I love your answer, makes the most sense of all.

              Bruce
              "Western civilization didn't make all men equal,
              Samuel Colt did"

              Comment

              • dbhost
                Slow and steady
                • Apr 2008
                • 9209
                • League City, Texas
                • Ryobi BT3100

                #8
                A couple of features that weren't mentioned above that bear mentioning...

                #1. Included router table extension, on other saws a router extension would start at $350.00, the BT3x00 came with one by default.

                #2. True riving knife. This is a huge safety improvement over traditional cast iron saws of the day, modern saws are FINALLY getting them more and more frequently (2010 was I believe the first Delta Unisaw with a riving knife).

                #3. Integrated dust collection / blade shroud. While not perfect, the dust collection below the table on the BT3x00 series saws at its worst, is better than a traditional contractor saw at their best...

                When I bought my BT3100, I could have had a TS3650 for the same money. The choice wasn't a tough one to make. The TS3650 is an excellent contractor saw, and has a few advantages over the BT, but the advantages the BT had were overwhelmingly in the favor of the BT...
                Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.

                Comment

                • LCHIEN
                  Internet Fact Checker
                  • Dec 2002
                  • 20914
                  • Katy, TX, USA.
                  • BT3000 vintage 1999

                  #9
                  good points Dave, I've added those to the FAQ.
                  Last edited by LCHIEN; 05-15-2011, 11:30 PM.
                  Loring in Katy, TX USA
                  If your only tool is a hammer, you tend to treat all problems as if they were nails.
                  BT3 FAQ - https://www.sawdustzone.org/forum/di...sked-questions

                  Comment

                  • mpc
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2005
                    • 979
                    • Cypress, CA, USA.
                    • BT3000 orig 13amp model

                    #10
                    When the BT3000 was introduced it came with features that are more common today but were hard to find/expensive on other saws of the day. Kinda like the first cars with disk brakes instead of drum brakes... if you are young today, "disk brakes" is what you think of as "normal" but just a couple decades ago "disk brakes" were only on high-end or expensive cars. The BT3 saw was similar with:
                    * a true riving knife compared to the klutzy splitter assemblies on most saws of the day; now riving knives are a safety requirement in many countries.

                    * the sliding miter table, instead of a dinky miter gauge assembly. MUCH better support for crosscuts, more accuracy, and less mechanical slop/freeplay than the typical (cheap) miter gauge assembly included with many saws - then or now.

                    * A shroud around the blade (inside the saw body) leading to a shop-vac compatible hose fitting for dust collection. A few years ago hardly any body considered health risks due to dust exposure... but the BT3 has a setup that works VERY well - and works with the vacs average Joe-homeowners own.

                    * The fences (yes, plural - the main rip fence AND the miter fence) and fence rails were built with slots designed to accept add-on assemblies: work hold-down clamps, extra-long rip fence accessories, sacrificial wood fences for dado blade stacks, infeed/outfeed extensions, etc. Watch any TV woodworking show - how many times do you see them making contraptions that "smother" the rip fence to attach to it... on the BT3 fence, simple T-nuts or similar attachments let you directly attach to the fence. And the BT3 fence, as Loring noted, clamps at the front AND REAR... unlike many other fences out there (then or now) including many of the expensive "best" fences in use today. Want to attach jigs to those fences - or even simple feather boards? Guess what - many "lift up" in the back. Not the BT3 fence!

                    * capacity - the BT3 cutting depth is very high for a 10" bladed saw as Loring noted. Plus, because the fence mounting rails are clamped to the saw body - instead of bolted to it - they can easily and quickly be moved to allow generous rip capacity to the left or right side of the blade - whatever you need for your project. Table saws tilt the blade to one direction only... most are "right tilt" which means the blade top moves to the right for bevel cuts... that's the same side as the main rip capacity of the fence attachment rails on most saws. For safety, you should not make a bevel cut with the fence on the same side as the blade tilt - that can trap the workpiece (wedging it under the blade and between the fence at the same time) leading to dangerous kickback. With the BT3's clever rail system, you can slide the rails to the left and move the fence to the left... now you have a SAFE bevel cut setup with large capacity too. Most other saws have limited bevel capacity (only narrow workpieces) because the rails are fixed so there isn't much room for the fence on the left side of the blade.

                    * A rectangular throat plate... it's very easy to make your own "zero clearance" inserts for your individual saw blades. Most saws use oval shaped inserts ==> a lot more work to make inserts. (why haven't other manufacturers caught onto this?!)

                    All of these features were "ahead of their time" when the BT3s were made and sold. Unless you paid a LOT more. Even today it's hard to match the BT3s flexibility for similar cost.

                    The BT3s were designed for the home woodworker, not a contractor that needs to throw the saw into a pickup every day, cut heavy pieces for hours on end, etc. It's precise - probably more precise/repeatable than many of the low and mid-range contractor saws today (and certainly better than what was sold years ago) but it's not built like a tank for abuse. It's not "toy built" by any means - look how many are still in reliable service today. Mine is one of the very original BT3000 models sold - the "first generation" with the original motor, etc. There's no reason to deride the BT3000 as "cheaply" built. But brand snobs and "cast iron" snobs dismissed it years ago without giving it a fair shake... kinda like "Ford truck" guys vs. "Chevy truck" guys will never change their mind. It looked "different" from what folks were used to and, rather than taking the time to learn its benefits (since we know the average person doesn't like to think), they dismissed it as weird and incapable when in fact it was at least as capable, and generally more capable, than competitor saws for less or in some cases more money.

                    mpc

                    Comment

                    • RodKirby
                      Veteran Member
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 3136
                      • Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
                      • Mao Shan TSC-10RAS

                      #11
                      I totally agree with all the good things about the BT3x - had one for years. In fact, had it so long that I was worried it might "die" on me. In Oz, the price of a new BT3100 was = to the price of a "regular" TS - so I went to the darkside

                      I think I've been around long enough to say the following...

                      The ONLY thing I hated with the BT3000 was the bevel adjustment
                      A PITA to set precisely.
                      Downunder ... 1" = 25.4mm

                      Comment

                      • natausch
                        Established Member
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 436
                        • Aurora, IL
                        • BT3000 - 15A

                        #12
                        What makes the saw different is the strong following by innovative, helpful and polite users. This forum is an example. I went over to the "dark" side last year during the R4511 closeout, but still visit regularly because the original users and new members are good blokes.

                        Comment

                        • Sawatzky
                          Established Member
                          • Apr 2005
                          • 359
                          • CA
                          • Ridgid TS3650

                          #13
                          When I had the BT, there was nothing I could not do with it, and it was very precise. One thing I liked was how easily adaptable it was. I also went to the dark side, not because it was a bad saw, but because I really wanted something with a bigger table top.

                          Comment

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