BT3000 rip fence, shims and other various questions.......

[Duane867]

Hello,
Long time lurker here. Just joined up today.
I purchased a gently used BT3000 this past week and I noticed two things I will need to do immediately to it to make it like new. The saw is cosmetically in like new condition. It even has the red tag still on it and I have the original sales receipt with all documentation. Even the video LOL!

My 1st question will be about the shims. I don't know if one has slipped beyond view or is actually missing. I looked down the throat and could only see one. I'll have to tear into it later this week and see.
Could one use pop cans for shims ?

My second question / possible fix is about the rip fence.
The locking handle does not go all the way down to lock in place.
I take it about half way leaving it basically parallel with the table. It feels as if I were to apply enough pressure to fully engage the handle to below the table that I would do damage to some thing due to the pressure it would take to do it.
Yet with it only in half down position it does lock the fence firmly. Adjusting the rear locking mechanism's screw has no effect. Nor does turning the handle up front.
This may be due to improper replacement locking pad type ?
I think it has been replaced by the previous owner because it looks fairly new and not worn very badly at all. Perhaps he replaced it with a sears saw part instead of the Ryobi correct part ?

3rd question is about acceptable material to make a miter slot table for both the left and right hand side. Would MDF be an acceptable material with maybe a small angle iron backing for anti bow support underneath, followed up with some sort of L bracket housing t-bolts to lock into the rails ?

[crokett]

1. Best thing to do is take it apart and post a picture. we can tell you whether a shim is missing or not.

2. The handle on my rip fence doesn't go all the way down either. Never has but the rip fence locks down just fine. The Sears and Ryobi saws are the same, just different colors.

3. MDF is acceptable if you strengthen the bottom. Angle iron would work. Also you could rip some hardwood down and glue it to the bottom of your new table.

[Duane867]

Thank you David. At least my mind is at ease now about the fence

I can tell if the shim is missing. I just didn't have the time to inspect it fully to tell today. I'll know by tomorrow. I'll just pop my head up under there and have a look see. I had to run out real quick and ended up making a day of it or I would have already done that today while I was there.

If the shim is missing though.. could one use pop can strips as replacement shims ?

[LCHIEN]

Thank you David. At least my mind is at ease now about the fence

I can tell if the shim is missing. I just didn't have the time to inspect it fully to tell today. I'll know by tomorrow. I'll just pop my head up under there and have a look see. I had to run out real quick and ended up making a day of it or I would have already done that today while I was there.

If the shim is missing though.. could one use pop can strips as replacement shims ?

I think adjusting the screw at the back of the rip fence can affect how far down the handle goes when its locked all the way (where the rear clamp grabs the back rail).

Usually remove throat plate and the blade and lower the arbor assy all the way you can inspect the shims from the top.

The shims are precision bent with little retaining tabs to fit the ways so I would not expect a great deal of luck with bending old soda cans. Besides which soda cans will be soft aluminum instead of brass shims - a material difference. I'm not sure you want aluminum sliding on aluminum, might be a problem. They're very cheap altho shipping just a pair may cost a lot more than the shims. Consider buying extra wear parts like belts and SMT latches that are often broken.

[Duane867]

Well, the left front shim is completely missing.
I removed the locking plate/guide assembly and had a **** of a time getting it back on the arbor. I had to knock it back in place with a hammer pretty firmly but not exactly "whacking" it either. Something is rubbing bow on the belt side.
I am taking it apart again tomorrow afternoon inspecting and reassembling it.

Exactly how hard is it to align and seat the arbor bearing back into the bore on the locking plate ? Meaning how much pressure should be applied and what is the easiest way to align the bearing while pressing the locking plate back on ?

I did print out the directions located on the maintenance and repair section on this forum but that part is vague to me.

Since there is pressure so as not to allow the blade to spin freely ( it will rotate by hand but not free spin with a little whirl of the hand like it did before. It will go a few inches around and stop due to friction. ) do you think it is possible I jammed the belt drive arbor back into the case to far by miss-aligning it at 1st and having to tap it on until it went straight ?
I tried to use the bearing thrust washer screws to align and pull it in but couldn't get the arbor seated enough into the bore to get them started so I could with out giving a hit or two with a hammer on the locking plate.

I will be ordering new shims here shortly. I'll just buy new rears and new fronts and do them all at the same time. Probably going to buy spare fronts though, and a couple spare belts along with a couple t-nuts and a couple of those locking levers used on the rails.

I don't think I could have done any damage that easily yet though. I haven't plugged it back in and turned it on yet either. want to get her free spinning before even thinking of that.

Any advice and help would sure be appreciated !

Any one got any thing on this ?

[Black wallnut]

Patience... as a new member your posts require moderator approval prior to the membership seeing them. Which means few have likly seen your latest post. I'll likly comment later this evening if someone does not beat me to it.

[crokett]

It is a wise choice to get extra belts and shims. However, before you order the shims you might think about ordering a new guide plate and the newer style shims from the BT3100. They were redesigned to avoid the issue you are having. Some folks will replace the belts while they are in there whether or not the belts are broken. I would inspect them and if they look ok then don't bother. I've replaced one and it was not fun. As far as reseating theplate on the arbor, yes it is a tight fit. What I did when I did the shim upgrade was get longer machine screws and use those to get the plate back on enough to use the stock screws that came with the saw. It gave me more control than using a hammer.

[Black wallnut]

If you add the shim supports as outlined in my article on shims you will never have to replace them again. At least that has been my experience and that of Norm, one time mega poster on this site and one of my heroes. You may have damaged something. I do not think my blade spins freely, although it does take some time for it to stop. Keep in mind that there is a slight drag on the bearing due to pre-load. David has the same answer as I have for seating the arbor bearing; use longer machine screws to seat it.

[Duane867]

Well here she is............. Not bad at all for a 17 year old table saw
Little dirty from me sweating heavily over MDF dust all over it LOL !



Heck of an upgrade from this turd burglar.......




Nothing damaged on the arbor. Tore it down and put it all back together again and while I was inspecting the belts and arbor I noticed that there was a bunch of junk caked on the top pulley and every revolution of that pulley it would become tight right at that spot. Probably happened when I banged on it with a hammer. So I walked the belts off and cleaned the pulleys. Runs like a champ again. I checked the blade for square again after I put it back together and its dead nuts on the money at 90 with a machinists square.

I will DEFINITELY be purchasing a new guide plate and the updated shims. The guide plate is only $15.00 and the shims are $4.00 each I think ? Or do you have to specifically order BT3100 shims ?

I went to town with white lithium grease on the up, down, and tilting mechanisms, as well as the slide on the guide plate. Operates much much smoother. I am still missing a shim though But.. Like I said I'll just do the update and order a new guide plate, a couple belts a set of end caps, and the locking mechanism assembly on the far end of the fence. Its dirt cheap as well, but the reason I want to replace it is because the fence wants to cock left while pushing the clamp handle down and is throwing my cut line of towards the blade by about 1/8" at the far end. I can stop it by hand, pushing the opposite direction while locking the fence and it will stay true but I don't want to go through that with every width change on a rip.

I'll recheck the innards of the front half of the fence to. Maybe something is misaligned there causing the problem. But I think it all stems from the rear though. It would be NICE to be able to make your own T-square like locking mechanism for the rear of the fence though wouldn't it ! that would eliminate
all that cocking to the side crap. Has any one done this on the 3100 or 3000 models yet ? Seems like you could ?

[crokett]

Link to an article I wrote a while back on the shim upgrade process, including PNs and where to order. If you have questions, let me know.

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=33948

[LinuxRandal]

Also, PLEASE send Loring LCHIEN, a valid email address, which has answers to a lot of the FAQ's (I believe including part numbers). And WELCOME!

[pelligrini]

Heck of an upgrade from this turd burglar.......

Hehe, I started out with one of those too. It didn't even have the extra back and side tables. Loud miserable machine...

but the reason I want to replace it is because the fence wants to cock left while pushing the clamp handle down and is throwing my cut line of towards the blade by about 1/8" at the far end. I can stop it by hand, pushing the opposite direction while locking the fence and it will stay true but I don't want to go through that with every width change on a rip.

I'll recheck the innards of the front half of the fence to. Maybe something is misaligned there causing the problem. But I think it all stems from the rear though. It would be NICE to be able to make your own T-square like locking mechanism for the rear of the fence though wouldn't it ! that would eliminate
all that cocking to the side crap. Has any one done this on the 3100 or 3000 models yet ? Seems like you could ?

The BT fence is really accurate when working properly. The fence on my 21829 will move slightly like yours when tightening. That movement will happen when going from fully loose to clamped. The clamped position is your true position. I've never measured the tolerances between different fence positions, but it has to be very tight. When measuring for a setup I'll have the fence clamped slightly.

I've never seen anyone do a T-square fence mod. I'm not sure if it would work either. That would mean that the rails would need to be perfectly aligned. The rip fence is designed to work off the front rail. The back rail is just secondary. When I clamp my SMT down I always do the front rail clamps first.

If you don't have the FAQ yet you ought to give it a look. There's a lot of info in there.

[LCHIEN]

i agree with ERIK on all his points about the fence.

Send me your e-mail address and I can send you the FAQ.

[Duane867]

Hehe, I started out with one of those too. It didn't even have the extra back and side tables. Loud miserable machine...


The BT fence is really accurate when working properly. The fence on my 21829 will move slightly like yours when tightening. That movement will happen when going from fully loose to clamped. The clamped position is your true position. I've never measured the tolerances between different fence positions, but it has to be very tight. When measuring for a setup I'll have the fence clamped slightly.

I've never seen anyone do a T-square fence mod. I'm not sure if it would work either. That would mean that the rails would need to be perfectly aligned. The rip fence is designed to work off the front rail. The back rail is just secondary. When I clamp my SMT down I always do the front rail clamps first.

If you don't have the FAQ yet you ought to give it a look. There's a lot of info in there.

Whats the purpose of the hook on the rear of the fence and sliding rod through the fence body then if it all the accuracy rides on the front rail ?
If that's true would that mean that something ( maybe the eccentric clamping wheel ) is worn on the feed side of the fence causing the 1/8" taper when tightened ?
I could live with 1/64th or so but 1/8th is a pretty significant taper from one end of the saw blade to the other. I appreciate your information. I have just PM'ed LICHIEN my email address so I may have a copy of the FAQ files.

Who knows maybe I will discover a way to rid that taper when clamped yet ?


Thank's for all the information fellas ! It's nice to see so many people who also love this saw !

[Duane867]

Ok so I fixed the fence cocking issue. I waxed the table, rails, the fence its self, and used some graphite powder on the internal moving parts of the fence.
Problem solved.
So now all I need to do is wait for frigg'n Ryobi to email me back ( because no one will answer the phone or call me back, when I leave a message OR EMAIL ME BACK. Tried that 3 times this past week) about the compatibility or my 1992 BT300 with the guide plate and spring shims from a BT 3100.
This is getting irritating LOL!
So yeah, either replace the stock for stock shims, or do the swap if its compatible and I pretty much have a brand new 1992 BT3000

as well, it seems that I can not accept gmail emails now for some reason or another so I can not receive a cop of the FAQ file from LCHIEN
Poor fella went out of his way to try twice but my outlook express is having none of it I guess.
Any one else willing to send me a copy that does not use Gmail perhaps ?
I would greatly appreciate it !

Duane