I guess it's for real...

[JR]

...you folks should have seen to it that HD put the darn things together properly!! ...

A search of the forum archives will reveal a number of examples of exactly that. People have reassembled badly assembled BTs, interrupted salesmen giving improper advice, helped customers find BTs on the shelves when the staff couldn't find them, etc.

Hmm, now that I see what I have written, it sounds sort of like a cult! But I guess that's been written before, too.

JR

[LarryG]

OK, this will sound like a smart a$$ remark but you folks should have seen to it that HD put the darn things together properly!!

A related point that has always bothered me:

As table saws go, the BT3x00 is a little weird. It has a lot more moving/adjustable pieces than the typical small TS, and practically begs for people to mess with it. In fairness to HD employees everywhere, I've always thought that tire-kicking customers who didn't understand the BT and moved things around were at least as big a problem, maybe even a bigger problem, than store personnel who botched the initial assembly.

As JR says, a lot of us HAVE put a display BT right, only to find it FUBARed on our next trip to the same store. It's not really fair to blame to staff for that (although, granted, they could have made more of an effort to straighten it out themselves).

[JR]

It's not really fair to blame to staff for that (although, granted, they could have made more of an effort to straighten it out themselves).

It is absolutely fair to blame staff, or at least blame HD.

This is a question of merchandising. We're discussing a medium-high dollar item which sells reasonably well (we are all acquainted with at least 5,000 people who own them). A store intent on selling the most product to the happiest customer would assure the displays were properly set up and that knowlegable staff were properly trained.

This is not the BORG way, though. HD uses their big-box footprint to provide product at low prices, supported by the fewest possible people. Period. The corporate bottom line is very compelling, but service suffers. In the Ryobi case it's a double whammy because HD buying clout has induced them to agree to an exclusive relationship. There is nowhere else to go for a BT3K, no matter their qualifications.

So, yes, I do blame the staff. I'm sure these are good people (I know a few of them personally), but they are the people who are responsible for HD policy. Because they are the people with whom we have to work. Or perhaps I should have said they are the people with whom we choose to work. Most of us can find our way to Rockler or Woodcraft where we would find informed help about Jet or Unisaw choices.

I guess it's the $300, now $249, conundrum.

Rant off.

JR

[LarryG]

It is absolutely fair to blame staff, or at least blame HD.

I think you missed my point (which is not to suggest that you didn't make some good ones, with which I largely agree).

When our lone Home Depot opened some 15 months ago, the display BT3100 was correctly assembled -- even to the point of having the SMT extension toward the front, where passersby were more likely to run into it.

Now, it's all screwed up (I presume it's the same saw) because most customers don't understand it and can't keep their hands off it. SMT turned backwards, miter fence on wrong, all the usual stuff. Should the employees make the effort to keep it presentable? Sure. But the reality is they're as human as the rest of us, and after a time they gotta get tired of peeing into the wind ... especially given what most of them presumably make.

But all we ever hear on this forum is, "Those idiots at HD are too stupid to know how to put it together." And that just ain't necessarily so.

That's all I was trying to say.

[drumpriest]

Yes Larry, but there is noone maintaining these saws in your example. Sure if a customer breaks something, it's difficult to fix, but every once in a while, you'd think that someone there should give the display models a once over.

[JR]

Now, it's all screwed up (I presume it's the same saw) because most customers don't understand it and can't keep their hands off it. SMT turned backwards, miter fence on wrong, all the usual stuff. Should the employees make the effort to keep it presentable? Sure. But the reality is they're as human as the rest of us, and after a time they gotta get tired of peeing into the wind ... especially given what most of them presumably make.

But that is the point. This is merchandising. If you went to a clothing store and the clothes were all messed up because customers had gone through them and staff had failed to straighten them out, well you'd think twice about that place.

Same thing here. These are tools people will want to touch. It should be up to the staff to both encourage that and to recover from it. That's what tool merchandising should be.

Instead, I get table saws crammed together with no possible way to get a feel for them. Routers screwed down to the display with no possible way to get a feel for them. Rarely anyone to ask a question of. If you find one, he may or may not know the anser to my questions (he's not an idiot, but he can't know everything about every tool in the crib), but there's no recourse. If his answer is inadequate, yer hosed.

Sorry guys, I had a long day yesterday and I guess I'm a bit cranky this am.

I'll go back to live coverage of the TdG, where Disco's about to show 'em how to race.

JR

[LarryG]

But that is the point. This is merchandising.

Yes it is. And I don't disagree. But let me say it one more time:

But all we ever hear on this forum is, "Those idiots at HD are too stupid to know how to put it together."

That's a real fine way to induce a body of store employees to help us out with our problems, ain't it? By constantly referring to them as idiots, morons, drones, the BORG, stupid? Nice. Real nice.

[Russianwolf]

If the saw goes the way of the doe-doe

all this means is that we will see people putting up parts on ebay as their saws break or are replaced.

and we actually might see an increase in the value of our saws as they become harder to come by.

It's sad and It's Ryobi's fault for not insisting that HD maintain the tools/displays/knowledge better in this exclusive agreement. Heck as part of an exclusive agreement, I would put in it that HD employees MUST recommend my products before those of non-exclusive competitors. And I would shop the stores to make sure they were doing it all correctly. If not, breach of contract and start promoting the tools elsewhere.

I have mine, it works and I know how to care for it. It's sad others will not be able to enjoy the saw in the future, but it happens.

[AndyF]

Cummins Tools

My fingers must be slipping. I can't find a BT3000 or BT3100 at http://www.cumminstools.com now.

[Tree Farmer]

Well...here's one theory as to the BT's future

As Ken has already offered, there is the possibility that TTI/Ryobi is working on a "3200" saw along the lines of a stationary version of the Craftsman BT, but is taking its time in the phases of design, engineering, tooling, production planning, etc. This idea makes sense, because we see it in other industries where the product in question is somewhat unique. Ford's SVT Cobra, for example, was purposely put out of production for a couple of years while their engineers sorted out how to apply the Cobra-specific features (rear independent suspension, a blown DOHC mill, novel tranny, unique upper and lower intakes, etc.) to the new-generation Mustang. It is coming back, and it will be better than it would have had the various functional areas not taken their time planning, organizing, and testing. The same may be true for the next-generation BT.

I find it difficult to believe that the saw is unprofitable for TTI to make and for HD to sell. In fact, I don't put much faith in the Black Helicopter theory that HD is primarily responsible for killing it in favor of the Ridgid saws. I only know a few people who own the 36K series Ridgid saw and none that own the portable saw. Obviously they sell, but I'm just not convinced they have outsold the BT over time by any significant margin.

If the BT leaves the Ryobi line permanently, then someone should inform the emperor that he has no clothes!

[AlanJ]

But that is the point. This is merchandising. If you went to a clothing store and the clothes were all messed up because customers had gone through them and staff had failed to straighten them out, well you'd think twice about that place.

Same thing here. These are tools people will want to touch. It should be up to the staff to both encourage that and to recover from it. That's what tool merchandising should be.

Instead, I get table saws crammed together with no possible way to get a feel for them. Routers screwed down to the display with no possible way to get a feel for them. Rarely anyone to ask a question of. If you find one, he may or may not know the anser to my questions (he's not an idiot, but he can't know everything about every tool in the crib), but there's no recourse. If his answer is inadequate, yer hosed.

Sorry guys, I had a long day yesterday and I guess I'm a bit cranky this am.

I'll go back to live coverage of the TdG, where Disco's about to show 'em how to race.

JR

I am starting to think that the 'planners' at the big box stores know exactly what they're doing with, let's call them 'specialty tools'.

An average weekend warrier that needs to cut a few boards will buy a $100 table saw. Price will dictate what they buy more than anything else (at that price there's not much choice). In years gone by, the next level buyer went to a specialty store and got good advice from the knowledgeable sales guy. Today, those next level buyers (I think that's many of us) are educated and wired. We go online and research, network, etc to find out what we need and where to get it from. Maybe the BORG has worked this out. They don't need o have educated sales associates or to do any merchandising! WE do it for them.

BT3Central is an unpaid BORG marketing tool!!!!

SAM!! close it down! I will not be assimilated by the BORG!!!!!!

[cwsmith]

It's easy to bang on the folks at HD (I've sure done my share) as I'm sure, we've all had some troubling experiences at the BORG. But let's not forget Ryobi's responsibility toward this product. Whether features or add on accessories, they do a really poor job of promoting this product. Maybe there was some fanfare when the BT3K was first introduced; but if so, a new campaign was long overdue. I think that in the last few years, any real promotion was probably limited to this site and its members. I know that if BT3Central didn't exist, I'd probably have purchased something else.

I've never seen a Ryobi rep at any HD, nor has there ever been a demo or even a decent display sign. The poor thing just sits there, in pieces, a bit dishevled, and really sort of the "odd-man-out". And while I can lay some blame on HD, it leaves me wondering where is Ryobi? I've seen and talked to the guys who come in regularly to straighten up the Ridgid tools, and repair the broken parts, etc. Even the DeWalt rep makes an appearance on occasion. But nothing ever from Ryobi!

When you think of the millions of people who put up websites on next-to-nothing budgets, it's hard to believe that Ryobi's product site went over a year without so much as a single press announcement or update on anything. Both the old and the new BT3100 page provides little more than a couple of small images and a few liines of text. It falls way short of illustrating the saws features, much less it's design advantages and build quality. While it seems an almost boundless effort to promote their "Air-Grip", there appears to be no effort taken for thier flagship "Precision Woodcutting Table Saw".

Maybe the "Air-Grip" is more profitable, but I doubt that it will ever get the following of the BT3K. (But who knows, maybe in a few years we can all get together on "AGCentral" and discuss why it keeps falling off the wall?)

Sorry, long day!

CWS

[Roger on the Rock]

HD here in Newfoundland still has one on the floor and at least one in stock that I could see. No mention of it going on clearance or sale...however it could be coming judging by what's been said here.

[jabe]

It's all here in Hawaii

I saw a pallet full of them at our HD in Hilo on Wed 4/26. Looks like they shipped it all to Hawaii. If you get a commercial account from HD, they'll give you a HD Pro Worksite CD, load it on your computer and with it you can get the prices of any item in any HD store. You can order your items on-line with it.

[jobole]

Des Moines has a few

Found a pallet of 4 on a very high shelf at the Home Depot on SE 14th St store in Des Moines.
The other 2 area HD only had floor demos priced at clearence of 249. The south store still was priced at 299 reg. brought it to their attention and they scanned it and said it was indeed 249 on closeout. Went ahead and purchased one for my very old and original bt3000 as a sorce of parts.
Dont know if that is smart or not but feel better having the spares for my very tricked out work horse. Dont know if the gift card promo will work since it says something about excluding clearence items, will submit anyway as the receipt looks normal.
As i was leaving the clerks were talking amongst themselves about getting the other 3 on floor with clearence signage for the weekend shopping crowd so those wont last.