Harbor Freight 800 Watt Generator - $80 - during the Oct 7 - 9 parking lot sale

[jnesmith]

i agree with SweensDV that the poster probably did what is called a backfeed.
You disconnect a branch circuit by flipping the circuit breaker off, then use a double male cord (this in itself is a dangerous thing to have laying around - misapplied can cause injury and death and equipment damage) to connect the generator to the branch circuit.

A live male plug is sure to give someone a shock - that's why male plugs are only used to plug into sources and the live end is recessed female receptacles.

So once he's got this kluge working there's more dangers in wait. Suppose someone sees a breaker box open and a breaker tripped off. Human nature is to want to turn the breaker back on. Two things can happen:
If the mains power if off then you'll backfeed into the house feed and transformer, you can possibly electrocute a linesman working to repair your line with thousands of volts (reverse fed thru a transformer).
Or if the power has been restored, the your generator will probably explode. and your equipment on the branch circuit will fry as the generator and mains voltages alternately add and cancel.

The risks of doing this are high and the damage potential high. Its never recommended to do it but its simplicity is very tempting because the alternative is an expensive to install transfer switch.

So, what you're saying is, "don't do that".

[LCHIEN]

800 Watts isn't too bad for a little generator. I'm thinking about getting one too. It should do my fridge and my fishtanks as long as I leave the lights and heaters off.

for your fishtanks you should consider getting one of those computer UPSes.
I imagine the rating of an air pump is probably 5 watts or so. An inexpensive UPS rated for 300VA would probably run a computer for 20 minutes but would run a 5W load for 10-20 hours. If you used the aerator half the time on and half off (manually or with some switch) you could make it last twice as long.

[MBG]

I can't say for sure this is what he did but it sounds like he rigged up a double male end extension cord plugging one end into the generator and the other into a wall socket. I once inquired about doing that exact thing at one of the Electrical Forums and was advised that it would be a very dangerous and stupid to do it. I took their advice and didn't do it.

Besides putting your self in danger I have heard this is very dangereous for the electric co. people trying to work on now LIVE power lines.

[pelligrini]

for your fishtanks you should consider getting one of those computer UPSes.
I imagine the rating of an air pump is probably 5 watts or so. An inexpensive UPS rated for 300VA would probably run a computer for 20 minutes but would run a 5W load for 10-20 hours. If you used the aerator half the time on and half off (manually or with some switch) you could make it last twice as long.

No air pumps here. There's probably at least a 290W load from all the powerheads, overflow filters, and canister filters in the remaining tanks I have up. I've thought about some battery backups, but I never could shell out the cash. I have several for my computers. A few need new expensive batteries, again.

[chopnhack]

I threw the 10-15 range out there because according to samsung, they recommend a min. of a 10a extension cord, but there are older units out there that surely draw more. I too didn't see specs on draw when I was on the website for samsung. Older wiring runs used to have a dedicated breaker for the fridge.

[All Thumbs]

In the case of a natural disaster, what is the legality of pulling one's meter? That is, if the power company says it could be several days before power is restored, what kind of trouble would one likely get into by pulling the meter so backfeeding the grid is not possible, but one could backfeed hard-wired items in your house (furnace, for example)?

If, when the power was restored by the power company, how much trouble would you be in when you reported to them that you pulled the meter. After all, you did it to protect their line men, right?

[Cochese]

I read a few of the reviews, and was confused by this comment:

"I turned off the breaker to the bedroom and plugged in my power cord to a wall outlet. I had power for lights, clock radio, and 26 inch TV"

What is he describing? It sounds like he somehow hooked the generator up to the circuit for his bedroom just by plugging it into a bedroom outlet. Somehow.

I've never had a generator, but I did not think something like that was possible. I thought you either plugged items into the generator (via an extension cord) or hard-wired it in to the breaker box.

I wanted to do something like this for my workshop. Have all my machines plugged into wall sockets and have a male plug at the door where I could hook in a generator or an extension cord. Can't really see the downside of it, since there's no power normally going to the shop and the only male part of it wouldn't have any juice if exposed. Power would also only be going one way, so to speak.

Haven't found the cheap and available parts to do it, though so I live with what I've got.

[LCHIEN]

I wanted to do something like this for my workshop. Have all my machines plugged into wall sockets and have a male plug at the door where I could hook in a generator or an extension cord. Can't really see the downside of it, since there's no power normally going to the shop and the only male part of it wouldn't have any juice if exposed. Power would also only be going one way, so to speak.

Haven't found the cheap and available parts to do it, though so I live with what I've got.

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-C.../dp/B003ATXIBG

This device will do what you want. Mount to the outside of your workshop building. Use a standard extension cord to connect the generator to this inlet.

Here's a cheaper version: no cover etc but only $12
http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=8718

the problem with these I listed are that they are only 15A so not good for powering a whole workshop. Good for powering a single branch circuit with a small genset (under 1800W). They sell locking plugs for 50 amps for more for those having a distribution box with several breakers and branch circuits., designed to be used with heavier wire, of course, probably something like 8 Ga.

[iceman61]

Does anyone know how quite or how loud this generator is? I have seen some of the Honeywell & Honda inverter generators showing up at some camps to briefly recharge batteries or to run icecream freezers & they are very quiet.

[pelligrini]

In the case of a natural disaster, what is the legality of pulling one's meter? That is, if the power company says it could be several days before power is restored, what kind of trouble would one likely get into by pulling the meter so backfeeding the grid is not possible, but one could backfeed hard-wired items in your house (furnace, for example)?

If, when the power was restored by the power company, how much trouble would you be in when you reported to them that you pulled the meter. After all, you did it to protect their line men, right?

I don't know about the legality, but I'm sure the power company wouldn't be happy. If you needed the power co. to hook it back up, you might be without power for even longer. There are disconnects and transfer switches for hooking up a generator to a building.

[pelligrini]

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5278-C.../dp/B003ATXIBG

This device will do what you want. Mount to the outside of your workshop building. Use a standard extension cord to connect the generator to this inlet.

Here's a cheaper version: no cover etc but only $12
http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=8718

That's cool. That would have been nice when I was using an extension cord to power my shop too. Glad those days are over.

[LCHIEN]

In the case of a natural disaster, what is the legality of pulling one's meter? That is, if the power company says it could be several days before power is restored, what kind of trouble would one likely get into by pulling the meter so backfeeding the grid is not possible, but one could backfeed hard-wired items in your house (furnace, for example)?

If, when the power was restored by the power company, how much trouble would you be in when you reported to them that you pulled the meter. After all, you did it to protect their line men, right?

Probably illegal - the meter is sealed with a tamper seal to prevent people bypassing or modifying the meter for theft of electricity.
Not only would you be the last to get power restored because fixing individual meters is lowest priority to repairing lines that furnish multiple properties, but when they came to fix it or read the meter you wold probably be in trouble.

there are legal means of protecting their personnel - e.g. transfer switches.

[woodturner]

If, when the power was restored by the power company, how much trouble would you be in when you reported to them that you pulled the meter.

Why would you tell them? If you are going to break the utility's rules ( likely not a law, just utility company rules), why tell them?

If you just plug the meter back in, likely all that will happen is that they will notice the seal missing next time they read the meter and will replace the seal.

If you are really going to do this, it's better to remove the seal without breaking it so it can be re-installed.

PLEASE don't remove your meter unless you really know what you are doing - 200A at 240 VAC can ruin your whole day!!

[LCHIEN]

Why would you tell them? If you are going to break the utility's rules ( likely not a law, just utility company rules), why tell them?

If you just plug the meter back in, likely all that will happen is that they will notice the seal missing next time they read the meter and will replace the seal.

If you are really going to do this, it's better to remove the seal without breaking it so it can be re-installed.

PLEASE don't remove your meter unless you really know what you are doing - 200A at 240 VAC can ruin your whole day!!

well, the seals are designed to be tamper resistant. You can't remove the meter without removing the seal, you can't remove the seal w/o breaking it.
Clearly, to the power co. a broken seal is a big hint that someone has screwed with the meter, for whatever reason. A major reason for this system is so that people don't bypass the meter or change the meter to steal electricity.

[chopnhack]

Aside from what Loring said, have you ever seen an arc flash? If this has ever happened to you or you have seen it and you still have clean underwear, your just plain dumb! Popping a meter can be dangerous, yes most of the times they come right out without incident, but there are plenty of instances where stuff does happen. Not knocking anyone, mind you, but look into other safer ways.