How stupid do they think we are?

[KC7CN]

I have no complaints about their CS... It's their marketing direction I'm at odds with.

My turn again. I agree with Uncle Cracker! I've had great service from their stores when I deal directly. But I do get tired of seeing all those "Great Sales" that exclude power tools, and a long list of products; no thank you, I have all the screws and hardware I need.

And don't forget the great deal they had on a Mobil Base last year! When I ordered one the following day, all the sale items (limited quantity) were sold out - but you could buy one at regular price In Rockler's defense, they did honor my order after I complained to a vice president, but there were still a lot of disappointed customers.

This kind of marketing approach leads me to shop elsewhere - and that's real easy to do when you don't have a local store.

-Don

[sweensdv]

Anyone else remember a few years ago when a Rockler ad campaign failed to include the disclaimer that exempted power tools, etc. When Rockler customers tried to order tools, they refused to sell them to them. In response, a Rockler higher up then tried to blame their customers for trying to take advantage of Rockler by ordering tools. That's when they lost my business.

[LCHIEN]

IMO a store's approach to customer satisfaction depends a lot on their philosophy. Stores like HF know people come there for the prices so they have frequent sales and coupon deals on usually very low priced goods, and go out of their way to make sure no customer gets turned away seeking a bargain. Few limits on coupons (e.g always applies to any power tools, no brands or tools excluded, readily match on-line prices, rainchecks, etc). And they'll take back anything that you feel doesn't do the job, no questions.

On the other hand Rockler is very proud of their quality and thinks that's why people come to them - their sales coupons read like a legal agreement with small print and finer print. And so their sales seem to be more attention getters rather than real sales.

[Alex Franke]

Anyone else remember a few years ago when a Rockler ad campaign failed to include the disclaimer that exempted power tools, etc. When Rockler customers tried to order tools, they refused to sell them to them. In response, a Rockler higher up then tried to blame their customers for trying to take advantage of Rockler by ordering tools. That's when they lost my business.

This and the one about the gift cards seem like honest mistakes to me. If a company makes a mistake like this, I'll ask if they'll honor it. If they do then of course I'm happy about it because I got a deal. But if they don't, I won't press it unless it really does seem intentional. And the store also won't lose my business if they don't always make good on an honest mistake. Usually they do something like, "I can't give you that deal, unfortunately, but how about a coupon for 20% off your next purchase?" or something like that.

If Rockler always has this disclaimer, but accidentally leaves it out once every couple of years, then it's pretty clear it's a mistake. If they have a habit of leaving out details like that that it's probably more along the lines of false advertising.

[carlh6902]

Maxparot-

I'm sure there's alot of details you've omitted between:

"I went in to purchase gift cards at 25% off and they refused to honor their ad."

and

"Not only that but they called the police and had me trespassed."

There's two sides to every story, and I'd love to have been a fly on the wall that day...

carlh

[WoodDawg]

ANd to boot your net savings is 25% only if the second item is identical in price to the first. If the second item is priced at half the price of the first then your savings just went to 16.6%.

This is not for net savings on the total sale. It is for 50% off of one item as clearly stated in the ad. I don't know about some of you but when I see any ad for a sale I always read to see what the terms and conditions are.

Maxparot-

I'm sure there's alot of details you've omitted between:

"I went in to purchase gift cards at 25% off and they refused to honor their ad."

and

"Not only that but they called the police and had me trespassed."

There's two sides to every story, and I'd love to have been a fly on the wall that day...

+1

I'm sure it was all Rocklers fault.

[Alex Franke]

This is not for net savings on the total sale. It is for 50% off of one item as clearly stated in the ad. I don't know about some of you but when I see any ad for a sale I always read to see what the terms and conditions are.

That's not the point, though -- I think people understand that it's half off the second item. I think what people are objecting to is that the offer at first glance is not really all it's made out to me when you read more of the details. And probably that this is type of ad is common for Rockler.

For example, suppose the ad went ever further and said, "50% OFF EVERYTHING IN THE STORE! (provided it's the second item you buy, and it's <= to the cost of the first item, and it's not a power tool, Leigh jig, router table, etc.)"

At first glace you see "50% off" and you think that you'll be able to buy something for half price. At second glace you realize that first you'll have to buy something else at regular price. At third glance you realize that you can't get that router you wanted for this deal."

Contrast this with a Victoria Secret ad I just got (Yes I'm on their mailing list ) that says, "50% off any single coat or sweater." And the fine print is something to the effect of, "Add any single coat or sweater to your cart, and enter offer code PICK50". That's it -- you get exactly what you think you're going to get at first glance.

Of course people here understand what "buy one, get another at half price" actually means, and the details once you read them are actually quite clear.

Advertisers only get an instant to grab someone's attention with their first glance ("50% Off!"), and once they do, they risk turning them off if they whittle down too much what the consumer's first impression of the offer is -- it starts to feel a bit like bait and switch. That's what I think some people here saying -- something to the effect of "Hey, you got my attention by shouting '50% Off' and then I come to find out that I can't get what I want for half price!"

[BigguyZ]

I find it comical when people get all up-in-arms over obvious errors. 25% off gift cards? Are you nuts? Sure, try to cash in on that, but if it fails, don't be a dink and make a scene...

The ad is clear. There are exclusions that make the deal profitable for the company (DUH!!). If you don't like it, don't use it!

I love my Rockler. Some of their employees aren't the brightest, but 80% of them are nice, friendly, helpful, knowledgable, and they know their product. If I can buy something from a big box to save money, sure- I will. But if I need advice on an issue or something specific to WWing, I'm there. And when they have their coupon offers, I go in there for pens, as the prices are more in line with other online sellers. If the prices are the same/ similar, I'd rather buy from a local store than online....

Anyways, just my opinion...

[maxparot]

I find it comical that people are ignorant enough to let a retail organization that obviously has margins enough to cover a promotion such as 25% off gift cards allow that organization to get away with an obvious bait and switch on a Black Friday sale.
What would make it an obvious error? The fact that they usually have a disclamer. It's a black friday 1 day sale all bets are off on the usual rules. I know a an Italian resturant chain that sells $100 gift certificates for the holidays and if you buy $100 worth you get another $25 gift card free. So that makes it a 20% discount. Is there a cut off for retail discount on gift cards?
If you feel people should act like sheep when they are being taken advantage of by retail advertizing practices than would I love to have you as a customer.
Are you nuts? If you don't make a stand they will take advantage of you over and over again and it will just get worse. Man up! This is a business they are paid to be nice, helpful and friendly. They got their jobs because they are knowledgable and that allow them to sell the product. The store survives charging more than big box stores because when you need special products or knowledge they can service your needs. Because of that I have no problem believing a 25% off giftcard promo won't break them but only entice customers to spend money they otherwise might not.
At the prices Rockler charges I have no problem believing that power tools could also be included in the sale.
As I stated they claim to have errored on the ad so who's responsible for making good on it. They are of course! Many other retailers would have stepped up and done the right thing.
To have them accuse their customers of trying to take advantage is outrageous and very poor customer relations. There just is no justification for it.

[10sCoachRick]

OK, just to beat this tired horse some more...

Restoration Hardware was giving out $20 'gift cards' with every $100 spent before Christmas. Plainly stated on the front of the card that it was good for 'future purchases of $100 or more after Xmas thru Jan 31'. Fair enough. Further restrictions indicated the card was NOT good on SALE mdse. Okey-doke. Went to RH after Christmas(made sure we had our cards in order to get our discounts) and the first thing announced as we entered the store was: "Welcome to RH...everything is on sale!" Effectively, the cards were worthless...couldn't be used for ANY purchase.
Now...
A) Could they have wasted a little more time and energy on this promotion?
and
2) Do you think anyone in our party will be excited to see the next RH promo?

Maybe didn't LOSE a customer pulling this trick but there are sure a lot of other places to find overpriced door knobs and cheap gadgets(good towels but they had better be on sale!). Not going to be too excited at their next promotion(I wouldn't be surprised if it's a 'Going out of business' sale based on their current product selection and pricing). BTW, if you're a Carroll Shelby fan, all the CS trinkets are half-price. I'll bet they didn't sell 10% of that mdse at a profit. Tough way to stay in business.

[WoodDawg]

That's not the point, though -- I think people understand that it's half off the second item.

Double check the OP.

That's what I think some people here saying -- something to the effect of "Hey, you got my attention by shouting '50% Off' and then I come to find out that I can't get what I want for half price!"

I'm pretty sure the local Ford dealer will have an ad in the paper this weekend selling Mustangs at $19999. It will probably say at the bottom something like there are 20 to choose from at this price. I'll go in and tell them I want the 60K Roush model sitting in the shoroom for that price and report back to the forum and let everyone know how it goes.


Just kidding.

[sbs]

I find it comical that people are ignorant enough to let a retail organization that obviously has margins enough to cover a promotion such as 25% off gift cards allow that organization to get away with an obvious bait and switch on a Black Friday sale.
What would make it an obvious error? The fact that they usually have a disclamer. It's a black friday 1 day sale all bets are off on the usual rules. I know a an Italian resturant chain that sells $100 gift certificates for the holidays and if you buy $100 worth you get another $25 gift card free. So that makes it a 20% discount. Is there a cut off for retail discount on gift cards?
If you feel people should act like sheep when they are being taken advantage of by retail advertizing practices than would I love to have you as a customer.
Are you nuts? If you don't make a stand they will take advantage of you over and over again and it will just get worse. Man up! This is a business they are paid to be nice, helpful and friendly. They got their jobs because they are knowledgable and that allow them to sell the product. The store survives charging more than big box stores because when you need special products or knowledge they can service your needs. Because of that I have no problem believing a 25% off giftcard promo won't break them but only entice customers to spend money they otherwise might not.
At the prices Rockler charges I have no problem believing that power tools could also be included in the sale.
As I stated they claim to have errored on the ad so who's responsible for making good on it. They are of course! Many other retailers would have stepped up and done the right thing.
To have them accuse their customers of trying to take advantage is outrageous and very poor customer relations. There just is no justification for it.

I find it comical that people have a need to rant about an experience they had 3 years ago. An experience which amounts to - not being allowed to use a coupon.

How many retailers _have_ you been thrown out of?
-- Banned from CompUSA.
-- Removed by police from Rockler.

But it's everybody else that's the problem...

[Brian G]

I do not work for, nor am I associated with the company.

I am biased in their favor because they have given me outstanding customer service at the retail store of my choosing here in the Twin Cities.

A few weeks ago, on a quiet day in the store, I struck up a conversation with the manager about the marketing philosophy related to coupons, and also the growing number of exclusions and caveats on the coupons. Some of his comments were along the lines of "I heard through corporate that. . ." but also based on his experiences at the store.

-Some of the restrictions for brand names (e.g., Leigh, Festool, Porter Cable) are mandated by the manufacturer, not by Rockler. It's the manufacturer's attempt to keep fair play among all of their contracted retailers, so that one local retailer doesn't use their brand as a loss leader. You may recall that Holbren had something similar to that with his marketing agreement with Whiteside. . .something about Whiteside limiting the percentage discount Holbren could offer.

-Some of the caveats for power tools protect them from significant losses incurred with price matching. For example, the local Rockler stores will guarantee that their retail price will beat any other local retailer's price for the same item by 10%. What the manager told me people tried to do is get that 10% price reduction, and then pull out the 25% percent off coupon after the deal and attempt to "stack" it onto the 10%, for a total price reduction of 35%. He said that a price reduction of that amount barely covers their margins for large power tools.

-People in the past tried to get price matches against online retailers, like a low-ball Amazon sale price, for some tools and add on the 25% coupon.

-Some sale items are limited stock, for whatever reason (liquidations, clearance, discontinued models) that they get for a good wholesale price. They restrict the coupons to retail stores only mostly because of internet forums like this Bargain Alerts forum, and others elsewhere, where people "slam" their order system and order way more than the stock they have available. While they try to satisfy as many people as they can, sometimes THOUSANDS of orders cannot be filled. It's easier for them to have to put up with a few dozen angry people that can't order from the web than thousands that tried to, had their order rejected, and are angry and demand what they believe is just compensation.

-He acknowledged that it doesn't seem totally fair to the internet customers. He also said that "corporate said" that internet customers are less likely to pay regular price for things they order, and typically only buy sale items anyway. The "retail store only" angle is partly to "reward" locals that buy stuff at full price more often. He said that the free shipping option is a bonus for many people, but he's never once been asked by anybody whether Rockler would pay for the gas used to get to and from his retail store.

-The gift card restriction is a simple concept. People were trying to buy gift cards at $0.75 on the dollar. In other words, people were expecting that they could give Rockler, say, $75 and expecting Rockler to give them a $100 gift card, of which $25 was free money to be used as a loan for a future purchase. Then people were expecting to be able to use ANOTHER 25% coupon when they paid for the merchandise by cashing in the gift card. So they were expecting Rockler to give them $25 out of operating capital to buy something, and then for 25% off of the retail price of the item. That's a bit different than a 25% reduction off of the retail price. The reduction is off of the potental profit, not Rockler's procurement price.

I had a good coversation with him. He said the intent was not to thumb their nose at anybody, and that they recognize that some people, especially internet customers, don't have the same advantages.

The exclusions end up being put in place to protect them from the unscrupulously greedy.

I see my recent Woodcraft coupon has the same restrictions. . . should they share in the irritation, too?

[Alex Franke]

Double check the OP.

Right -- what I was trying to say was, "I think people understand what it means when read the details of the offer." My point was more of a first impression versus the actual offer.

I'm pretty sure the local Ford dealer will have an ad in the paper this weekend selling Mustangs at $19999. . . .I'll go in and tell them I want the 60K Roush model sitting in the shoroom for that price and report back to the forum and let everyone know how it goes.

Nice. Pick one up for me while you're there!

I find it comical that people are ignorant enough to let a retail organization. . . .get away with an obvious bait and switch on a Black Friday sale.

I guess I wouldn't consider it an obvious bait and switch. If it is, then they should be charged with fraud. Do they do this a lot?

If you don't make a stand they will take advantage of you over and over again and it will just get worse. Man up!

If they keep doing it, then yeah, sure. But if it seems like an honest mistake (a judgment call, probably based on past experience with the store) then I wouldn't give them h*ll over it. (And yes, I have a Y chromosome in each and every one of my cells. )

As I stated they claim to have errored on the ad so who's responsible for making good on it. They are of course! Many other retailers would have stepped up and done the right thing.

...and you voted with you feet and walked away. If enough people do that, then they'll hopefully get the message and make some changes...

[maxparot]

I find it comical that people have a need to rant about an experience they had 3 years ago. An experience which amounts to - not being allowed to use a coupon.

How many retailers _have_ you been thrown out of?
-- Banned from CompUSA.
-- Removed by police from Rockler.

But it's everybody else that's the problem...

Actually CompUSA never was able to ban me and a couple of months later corporate changed the security policy for it's stores so it didn't violate anyones rights. The issue never came up again.
HomeDepot in NY had similar security issues and was forced to change policies.
If I lived closer to my local Rockler I would have more actively pursued the issue. The fact is I have 2 other woodworking specialty retailers closer that don't play games. I don't need Rockler and won't shop there!

Not every retailer plays these games. So no, it isn't everybody else's problem just a few that need a wake up call.

Bottom line if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem.
If you don't stand up for yourself don't expect anyone else to do it for you!

As for ranting about this experience it seemed appropriate for the thread based on the original post.