Black Friday

[cgallery]

Yes, they are pretty good at managing their expenses, too.

If you're implying that they mistreat their associates, they're really no worse than any of their competitors in that regard. The only retailer that you'll find on the Fortune list of 100 best employers is Nordstrom, an upscale department store chain. (Believe it or not, Wal*Mart was on it as recently as 2002.)

I thought Costco was supposed to be pretty good, with livable wages and health insurance, too.

[Uncle Cracker]

"Mistreat" is not the implication I was meaning. "Underpay" is mo' betta...

[gjat]

"Mistreat" is not the implication I was meaning. "Underpay" is mo' betta...

How much do you expect a cashier or stock person to really make? I would not think that people should expect to raise a family of four where the two bread winners both work at Wal-mart. There is no way anyone who's ever helped me at a Wal-Mart should be making more than $10 an hour.

[Uncle Cracker]

There is no way anyone who's ever helped me at a Wal-Mart should be making more than $10 an hour.

Did you ever consider that you get what you pay for? By setting wages where nobody can support themselves, much less a family, you will not attract anybody who takes working very seriously. Hard to get excited about starving. Most people there are just tired from working their other job...

[DaveS]

Every time I read a thread on this topic, I always remember this article.

I've read it a bunch of times, and I still find it inspirational (in a weird way).

The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart
By: Charles Fishman
Every year, thousands of executives venture to Bentonville, Arkansas, hoping to get their products onto the shelves of the world's biggest retailer. But Jim Wier wanted Wal-Mart to stop selling his Snapper mowers.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...n_snapper.html

[steve-u]

More and more retailers are getting away from loss leaders for a variety of reasons. They have not been proven to lead to buyer loyalty.

I have worked in retail my whole life. The type of buyer after a loss leader is not interested in buying anything else unless that item is being given away also. Often the buyer is looking to put the item on Ebay or Craigs list and will bring friends and family along to get as much as possible.

Retailers have found that decent everyday prices, clean stores, stores well stocked with a good variety, helpful/knowledgeable employees, and good service build store loyalty. Lowes comes to mind for me. Walmart misses the mark for me in more than a couple of those categories - particularly knowledgeable employees and good service.

I try to avoid Walmart most of the time. I do stop by on occasion to purchase ammunition but it usually takes 15-30 minutes to find anyone to open the cage for me to purchase. It is harder and harder to find a place to find ammunition other than a gun store anymore. Sportsmart and Sports Authority no longer carry any and is one reason I do not patronize those chains anymore.

[drumpriest]

On the topic of people not being paid enough. It's funny that people expect experts at some stores, and assume stock boy knowledge from employees at other stores, yet the pay doesn't really change.

I have friends working at Rockler, and people constantly come in to ask them questions about how to do things, but they are paid as cashiers, not as woodworking experts, so where is the parity there?

People perceive our local Rockler as much better than HD or Lowes because these guys know how to build stuff, but I doubt that they are paid better than HD or Lowes employees.

So when does it make sense to pay more? What is expected of a cashier.

[10sCoachRick]

Did you ever consider that you get what you pay for? By setting wages where nobody can support themselves, much less a family, you will not attract anybody who takes working very seriously. Hard to get excited about starving. Most people there are just tired from working their other job...

I think Circuit City may be reaping the fruits of their decision a couple of years back to have only low-paid sales staff. Plenty of other decisions contributed, I'm sure.

[10sCoachRick]

Every time I read a thread on this topic, I always remember this article.

I've read it a bunch of times, and I still find it inspirational (in a weird way).

The Man Who Said No to Wal-Mart
By: Charles Fishman
Every year, thousands of executives venture to Bentonville, Arkansas, hoping to get their products onto the shelves of the world's biggest retailer. But Jim Wier wanted Wal-Mart to stop selling his Snapper mowers.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/...n_snapper.html

If I find myself in front of the computer long enough, I'm going to try to find an update on this story and Wier's current situation. I've moved 1000 miles away from Snapper-land...don't believe I knew anyone with the company when I lived in ATL.

[rnelson0]

On the snapper article, it is dead on - I almost (due to budget restrains I could not) buy a Snapper, because my Dad had one. That Snapper was 28 years old when it finally died last year. Snapper had pulled the plug on spare parts, otherwise it would still be ticking. And, of course, my father bought a new mower but constantly grumbles that it is horrible and he misses his Snapper. He surfs Craigslist for one item and one item only!

[gjat]

Did you ever consider that you get what you pay for? By setting wages where nobody can support themselves, much less a family, you will not attract anybody who takes working very seriously. Hard to get excited about starving. Most people there are just tired from working their other job...

EXACTLY! You get what you pay for. I buy some things from Wal-Mart, but not other things if I need a better quality or expert advise. Just like the Snapper article points out, some people buy Chevy's, other people but BMW's. I don't go to a Chevy dealer and expect BMW quality, service, or price. Nor would I go to BMW and expect BMW service and quality for a Chevy price. A waiter at the Columbia in Ybor is certainly expected to make more money and provide better service than the waiter at Applebee's. I don't gripe or complain about the service at Applebee's because I realize how much and what I'm paying for.

[Uncle Cracker]

I don't gripe or complain about the service at Applebee's because I realize how much and what I'm paying for.

So what if it's not Columbia? A server at Applebees is still dependent on tips for a living, and therefore should still be motivated to do a better job. This is entirely different from a low-wage worker at WalMart, whose only motivation is to stay off welfare (which probably pays better than WalMart).

[JR]

This is entirely different from a low-wage worker at WalMart, whose only motivation is to stay off welfare (which probably pays better than WalMart).

Alternatively, that worker may be working for the privilege of medical coverage. I understand (sorry, actual facts not readily at hand) that in some families the Wal-Mart employee earns just about enough to pay for med. ins. for the family of four, leaving the "primary" earner to bring home the bacon.

JR

[gjat]

So what if it's not Columbia? A server at Applebees is still dependent on tips for a living, and therefore should still be motivated to do a better job. This is entirely different from a low-wage worker at WalMart, whose only motivation is to stay off welfare (which probably pays better than WalMart).

I don't understand what you're saying. I know a few Wal-Mart employees and they are motivated to earn a certain amount of money for a certain amount of effort. I don't know of any who just are doing enough to stay off of welfare. Wal-Mart uses them, and they use W-M. Nobody is super motivated to go the extra mile unless there's something in it for them. I shop there for bargins and do not expect superior customer service because that is not what W-M is providing, asking me to pay for, or paying their employees for. I think it's unfair and unreasonable for people to go to a Wal-Mart and expect a level of service they are not paying for. I also think it's unreasonable for people to expect a living wage for every type of job there is out there. It takes more effort and knowledge for one of my construction laborers than a cashier at Wal-Mart. I have to pay more for the added effort. I also pay more for someone who wants to be a crew leader then for a basic laboror.

I think we all should stop and think about the next time we complain about the cashier or clerk at a big box or w-m. We aren't paying for much, we want it cheap, and we aren't paying for a high level of proffesionalism. They're propbably having a tough day making $7 an hour and everyone treating them like they're making $40k a year. Give them a smile and be polite and don't expect more than what you're paying for when you walk out with your $10 jeans.

[dbhost]

So what if it's not Columbia? A server at Applebees is still dependent on tips for a living, and therefore should still be motivated to do a better job. This is entirely different from a low-wage worker at WalMart, whose only motivation is to stay off welfare (which probably pays better than WalMart).

Depending on the position the indvidual has at WalMart, the wages aren't terrible, but the folks that are making the real money there the customer will never see.

I don't understand what you're saying. I know a few Wal-Mart employees and they are motivated to earn a certain amount of money for a certain amount of effort. I don't know of any who just are doing enough to stay off of welfare. Wal-Mart uses them, and they use W-M. Nobody is super motivated to go the extra mile unless there's something in it for them. I shop there for bargins and do not expect superior customer service because that is not what W-M is providing, asking me to pay for, or paying their employees for. I think it's unfair and unreasonable for people to go to a Wal-Mart and expect a level of service they are not paying for. I also think it's unreasonable for people to expect a living wage for every type of job there is out there. It takes more effort and knowledge for one of my construction laborers than a cashier at Wal-Mart. I have to pay more for the added effort. I also pay more for someone who wants to be a crew leader then for a basic laboror.

I think we all should stop and think about the next time we complain about the cashier or clerk at a big box or w-m. We aren't paying for much, we want it cheap, and we aren't paying for a high level of proffesionalism. They're propbably having a tough day making $7 an hour and everyone treating them like they're making $40k a year. Give them a smile and be polite and don't expect more than what you're paying for when you walk out with your $10 jeans.

I've actually known a few folks from college that were working at Wally World not just to stay off Welfare like you said, but rather to get through college. Once they graduated, they moved up Wal Mart's corporate ladder, and have had some fairly decent advancement opportunities in retail management and logistics. There is an end of that business that requires well trained, and well compensated individuals to do their jobs right. I know what the stockers, and department clerks get paid, and I expect that amount of money's worth of knowledge and effort from them. The cashiers are no different, but let's say for example, the guy or gal working in Walmart's lube center had BETTER know what he / she is doing in THAT job. And I find that at least my local Walmart, attracts a better quality lube tech than the Jiffy Lube where I am pretty sure they don't drug test those guys at all...