Craftsman Professional 17 in. Drill Press 179.99 (normally 529)

[kirkroy]

Hechinger's, which seemed like a good size chain in the Wash DC area, was also killed when HD came around...

[Scottw]

Not to change the subject, wait, what was the subject??

Well here’s my story. Just like others I ordered the infamous DP on the Friday morning for local store pickup. I was rewarded at noon with an email saying that my local store did not, in fact, have any in stock. They were very sorry, I would not be charged, and I could reorder at another store or order for delivery at my home. I reordered for local pickup at a store in Illinois near my parents house just to see what would happen. I was following along on this and other forums so I knew my chances were getting slimmer by the minute. The next morning I received not only a cancellation notice but a few hours later a ready to pickup notice at the store in Illinois. My father went to pick it up and was told that they didn’t have any in stock and it was all a mistake anyway. He politely held his ground and after an hour and a half they agreed to reorder with his cc at the 179 price but he would have to wait until they came in sometime late Nov. They said they would make sure that the first order was canceled and I would get a credit on my card. They also gave him a $10 gift card for his trouble!!!
So now comes this last Sat and I get an automated call from sears saying that my order was ready to be picked up. I call my father again and he heads over and in 15 minutes he is heading home with a new 17” DP in the back! Presumably we still have one on order to be fulfilled in Nov.!?
I’ll pick up at least one DP over the Thanksgiving Holiday.

I don’t know WHAT kind of marketing their doing, but I'm happy!

BTW Does anyone have the actual model # from this? The one that has the mfg. identifier in it. 152.?????????

[cgallery]

Before wading back into this one, I wanted to do a little research, just to make sure my experience (primarily electronics and computer components) was applicable.

I looked up the prices of three different items sold by Home Depot, where I have direct access to the manufacturer's container quantity prices. (FOB Terms, 2 from China, 1 from Taiwan)

Even allowing for the possibility of additional discounting beyond the standard container pricing (rare) the margins are every bit as slim as I expected them to be.

Sears is tricky due to the fact that they don't provide departmentalized data. But seeing as you mentioned electronics, let's look at Best Buy.

They sell commodity items in an incredibly tight and easy to shop market. People imagine their markups have to be in the low double-digit or even single-digit territory.

You can study their quarterly and annual reports (find one here: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/...510&Type=HTML).

For the three months ended Sep. 1 '07, revenue was $8750, cost of goods sold was $6611, and selling and administrative costs were $1738. For the three months ended August 26 '07, those #'s were $7603, $5701, and $1572.

So, Best Buy's gross markup is 32% in the first instance and 33% in the second. Their selling, general and admin. expenses are enormous (that is their model, similar to Sears).

Now let's assume that the average consumer spends approx. 10% of their total ticket on high-margin accessories. So someone buying a $1500 TV buys $150 in cables or warranty crap or whatever. Someone buying a $250 camera spends another $25 on a case or whatnot. Also assume Best Buy commands a 400% markup on those items (something that costs $1 sells for $4) . So, ($8750-$875)/($6611-$218) means they make 23% on those LCD and plasma Tvs, and computers.

And that is for commodities! And I'm not even adding-in their legendary loss-leaders (skews results towards low margins).

I do imagine Sears stationary tool markups are about twice that as Best Buy's. Right in there at 40%. I really have nothing to base that on but my gut.

Yes, I've imported from China. I've been told by U.S. offices that my offer of $15 per unit was under their cost, only to buy for $3-$4 per direct from the factory (non commodity items).

I've had distributors quote me Intel costs that were higher than other distributors were selling for. I don't know if the sales people were just doing a bad job of negotiating or if their purchasing departments played w/ the costs in their software to provide a "tool" for salespeople that had to negotiate all day. But I've had major distributors tell me their margins were never more than 5% when their balance sheet clearly indicated otherwise.

Mind you, I'm not arguing that 40 or even 50% is unfair. The bottom line is that, at the end of the year, Best Buy has a 3% net.

The question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to spend your money on local bricks and mortar convenience. Buy once I enter a Best Buy or Sears, I do not begrudge them their profit.

Pricing mistakes? Well, as long as something is miss-marked and they allow me to buy it at that price, that's on them. I'm not going to try to read their minds. Sure, I'm not going to get upset if a Unisaw deal for $100 falls through. But if something is marked at 1/3 its normal price, well, I've seen stranger and if I want one I'm going to get in line.

[dkerfoot]

Well Doug since you did wade back into it:
I'm sure that most people here are aware that Home Depot is a Big Box discounter that has made it's name for itself by coming into a area and discounting their prices and driving other competitor out. Many chains of hardware stores have fallen to them already. Channel Home Centers, Rickles, Pergament to name a few just from the east coast. Do you really feel that using HD costs and pricing is a good way to judge.

Well, since your original criticism was that I had never worked for a big box retailer, uh... Yeah, I thought that HD would be a reasonable way to judge. I don't see how pointing to the margins of companies that have been run out of business would be a more reasonable approach. Finally, since Sears' primary competitors would have to be considered HD, Lowes and Menards AND since Ryobi is a primary tool supplier to both HD and Sears - HD continues to make alot of sense for comparison.

CGalley - You are right - in electronics, the big margins are in the cables and accessories. They are absolute gold compared to the electronics themselves. Seems very counter-intuitive, yet I see it time after time. Cutting edge electronics also carry a healthy margin. IPODs are always very profitable because Apple is maniacal about protecting their prices.

With Best Buy, you are overlooking a very important area - the Geek Squad. Because they are pure labor they add nothing to the Cost of Goods Sold, and are expensed against the Admin. Geek Squad is by far their most profitable sector. I don't have direct knowledge of their percentages, but since my primary business is centered on IT Services to small businesses, I have learned a lot of anecdotal information. Assuming Geek Squad accounts for 25% of their profit (not revenue) would be quite conservative. If I had to pick a number, I'd put their average markup at around 15%, understanding as you stated that accessories skew it upward, as do Ipods and a few other high margin items. Those no longer cutting edge LCD TVs are closer to 10-12%.

There pretty much isn't any IT wholesale distributor that can compete on price with Newegg.com Places like newegg have adopted a model of essentially becoming a wholesale distributor, but selling direct to customers instead of to resellers. So, they have all the advantages of the distributors, without the overhead of account reps, etc...

I guess the unifying point I have been trying to make here is that the old "retail" is pretty much completely gone, except in boutique shops. Every national chain is now a discounter, and a heavy discounter at that.

[Andrew Benedetto]

The complaint I have is this is not consistent depending on the store and they flat out lied b/c my store had it in stock. The reason gave to me is that it is OOS online and later in the store, but there were units when I went there, CS said you have to get the store to PM, which CS told me they have to do according to their policy IF I have a reciept for a confirmed order. I called again today, the same answer, 2x's 2 different CS reps, CS said the store should PM since it is OOS online, bring in my reciept to the store . The store will not PM my online receipt. This is not right. They printed no retraction or posted a correction in the store. Some I know actually bought the item then they stopped selling them. I will talk to the store mgr. but I doubt he will do anything.
I was there 2 hours trying to pick up a BS, 10" on sale in Sept. for $100. Got several call to pick up the item. The store has several but can NOTt access my order, or see anything about my .com order with their computer system. That is absurd. Since they are not connedted to the .com, they are useless in the store! I had to call the 800#, they did not even know the #. Took them another 45 minutes on hold looking it up, I showed them the charge on my CC bill even dated 9/15 but the had to get a .com supervisor to say I actually did pay for the item.

[mpauly]

Wow, who would have thought this "bargain" post would turn into this?

Anyone else have any comments or critiques of their bargain find? I was able to get the lasers properly aligned and I actually kind of like 'em. The one knob handle is also growing on me.

Anyone have any tips for smoother running?

Michael

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Anyone else have any comments or critiques of their bargain find? I was able to get the lasers properly aligned and I actually kind of like 'em. The one knob handle is also growing on me.

Anyone have any tips for smoother running?

Michael

I put mine together last night. I can't say that based upon my initial impression that it is a heck of a lot better than a HF unit. I have not set up lasers yet so that might be the problem

Link belt is out of the question given the type of belts on the unit. I notice that the vast majority of my vibration and noise is coming from the cover of the head unit. Like it needs a 50lb bag of sand sitting on top of it or something.

[mpauly]

I put mine together last night. I can't say that based upon my initial impression that it is a heck of a lot better than a HF unit.

If you read my mini review....my sentiments exactly. A nice deal for the price, but not something worth beating yourself up for missing.

I had some good luck with securing the lid a little by bending out the securing tab and adding some damping material. Still a standard pulley and a v-belt would have been nicer.

Michael

[cgallery]

CGalley - You are right - in electronics, the big margins are in the cables and accessories. They are absolute gold compared to the electronics themselves. Seems very counter-intuitive, yet I see it time after time. Cutting edge electronics also carry a healthy margin. IPODs are always very profitable because Apple is maniacal about protecting their prices.

With Best Buy, you are overlooking a very important area - the Geek Squad. Because they are pure labor they add nothing to the Cost of Goods Sold, and are expensed against the Admin. Geek Squad is by far their most profitable sector. I don't have direct knowledge of their percentages, but since my primary business is centered on IT Services to small businesses, I have learned a lot of anecdotal information. Assuming Geek Squad accounts for 25% of their profit (not revenue) would be quite conservative. If I had to pick a number, I'd put their average markup at around 15%, understanding as you stated that accessories skew it upward, as do Ipods and a few other high margin items. Those no longer cutting edge LCD TVs are closer to 10-12%.

There pretty much isn't any IT wholesale distributor that can compete on price with Newegg.com Places like newegg have adopted a model of essentially becoming a wholesale distributor, but selling direct to customers instead of to resellers. So, they have all the advantages of the distributors, without the overhead of account reps, etc...

I guess the unifying point I have been trying to make here is that the old "retail" is pretty much completely gone, except in boutique shops. Every national chain is now a discounter, and a heavy discounter at that.

First of all, Geek Squad is decimal point dust to Best Buy.

In terms of markups, I wasn't pointing to pure opinion. Best Buy's gross markup is, in fact, approx. 32%. Taken right from their annual reports. Cannot be disputed.

Finally, on BB selling at 10-12% markup things like LCD TV's, you're simply misinformed. It is easy to check, in fact.

Take the Sony KDL-40V3000 (40" LCD TV) that retails at $1999. Best Buy is offering it _ON_SALE_ for $1899. But wait, Amazon offers it for $1622, including free shipping.

How about the Samsung LN-T4071 (another 40" LCD TV). Retail is $2699.99. _ON_SALE_ at Best Buy for $2564. Amazon? $1859 (ouch!).

And wanna know what? Best Buy pays less than Amazon. That's right. Amazon is making a profit, but Best Buy's profits are HUGELY higher. Best Buy could sell at Amazon's price and make more than Amazon. But that isn't their model.

I didn't have to search long and hard for extreme examples, those are two of the three that came up right away and were easy to find. Both in stock from each source.

I own the oldest computer shop in Wisconsin, what I'm told by Ingram/TD is one of the oldest in the nation. Started in 1988. I've talked to BB reps at Ingram and I know the BB playbook. It is very simple, and typical of how retail has run for the last 80+ years.

[KC7CN]

If you read my mini review....my sentiments exactly. A nice deal for the price, but not something worth beating yourself up for missing.

I had some good luck with securing the lid a little by bending out the securing tab and adding some damping material. Still a standard pulley and a v-belt would have been nicer.

Michael

I have the Delta 17-965. The Sears machine looks like a knock off, right down to the noisy lid, which was a small disappointment. My fix was small pieces of self-adhesive felt pads on corners opposite of the hinge. I also had a lot of trouble with the power switch -- it was very hard to push the off button. This was a design problem that was resolved on the 3rd switch replacement.

One other aspect of my drill press that was somewhat of a disappointment is the plastic table riser crank handle; it works but it does seem flimsy. I notice the Craftsman model also has the push-button depth lock. My first one was defective; half the threads were missing on the locking nut. Delta sent TWO replacements, with good threads, but it still doesn't work quite right; occasionally skips over a thread. What I do like is the smooth operation, quill lock, and long quill travel; all-in-all a good machine.

-Don

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I have the Delta 17-965. The Sears machine looks like a knock off, right down to the noisy lid, which was a small disappointment. My fix was small pieces of self-adhesive felt pads on corners opposite of the hinge. I also had a lot of trouble with the power switch -- it was very hard to push the off button. This was a design problem that was resolved on the 3rd switch replacement.

One other aspect of my drill press that was somewhat of a disappointment is the plastic table riser crank handle; it works but it does seem flimsy. I notice the Craftsman model also has the push-button depth lock. My first one was defective; half the threads were missing on the locking nut. Delta sent TWO replacements, with good threads, but it still doesn't work quite right; occasionally skips over a thread. What I do like is the smooth operation, quill lock, and long quill travel; all-in-all a good machine.

-Don

There seems to be some difference but I agree that the model seems very close. The interesting thing is that Orion which of course was started by a buch of former Delta employees. Looks like they may have taken a few expired patents with them! The Craftsman has a nice keyless chuck, different handle configuration, of course the laser, but the overall machine is very similar. THere are a lot of reviews on Amazon for the Delta machine that may give some ideas on an issues anyone may be having.

[JSUPreston]

According to a forum on Slickdeals, this is made by Steel City. I've downloaded both manuals, and on first glace they look very similar and have almost identical specs. Even the print in places looks the same. Here's the link: http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...628808&page=21

Still waiting on mine. I decided to pass on the offer that was made to me last week. Called last night, and still not in yet.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

According to a forum on Slickdeals, this is made by Steel City. I've downloaded both manuals, and on first glace they look very similar and have almost identical specs. Even the print in places looks the same. Here's the link: http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...628808&page=21

Still waiting on mine. I decided to pass on the offer that was made to me last week. Called last night, and still not in yet.

They guys who started Orion also started Steel City. For example the Craftsman 22124 saw is sold under the Steel City brand as well.

[ironhat]

I know that we're all tired of hearing about this but I got my e-mail confirmation this afternoon. Talk about confusion.

Well, I sent the wife in with the slip and 4.7 minutes later I have a DP in the bed of my truck for $179! Jeez, what a circus act this has turned out to be. For a change, I have a decent gloat!

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Well, I sent the wife in with the slip and 4.7 minutes later I have a DP in the bed of my truck for $179! Jeez, what a circus act this has turned out to be. For a change, I have a decent gloat!

Hey congrats! You deserve one . . . heck you ordered before I did!