Gentle Reminder.

[Black wallnut]

Interesting stuff. Its nice to see so much passion pouring out about the site. I am a patron and will sign on again in a few days when my subscription runs out (perhaps others are also coming due soon which should help increase the pot). After reading all the posts, as Gregg suggests, I feel that there are probably enough people who do appreciate the efforts of Sam and the mods to hit the goal (this is not the first campain) to keep the site going. Privatizing ANY portion of the site for those who pay sounds to me like unintentionally opening the door for future fees and charges to belong. For those who feel this site has a value and are able to give, great, for others who maybe aren't able to give, I'm happy to help keep it going for you, for those that may be stealing bargains, or somehow taking avantage of the site, well that's society. The intention to get more people to dontate is nice, but honestly I think it will happen without being pushy or trying to become exclusive.
Al

I have pretty much kept my mouth shut and probably should still, but I feel there should not be any patrons only areas and especially not the bargain alerts. Guys are posting these bargains freely enough. In keeping with the spirit of which it was originally setup, it is to SHARE deals and info, not to hold such info hostage. I do understand that some may feel that because they missed out on a deal, it's because this info was available to all. Perhaps so, but that is why the whole forum exists. To freely share the info, whatever that may entail. This is the true spirit of this entire forum. This should not change. Any new Patrons or Members only perks should not include info of any type. To do so would encroach on our most valuable resource, which is sharing information that may ultimately benefit another, regardless of whether they are a Patron or not. Anyone that posts any useful information is a Patron IMHO. No one wears a crown around here. You can't count Adele's tiara.

I'm just calling it like I see it and everyone has an opinion, but I feel changing the status quo on this issue would be an error.

Before I get flammed for not reading the entire topic prior to posting......... and after only reading through these posts....

I've been a member of this site since the second week of Sam starting it so I think I can remember a bunch of it's history. I have never posted in "Bargin Alerts" and have only read it a few times. My shop is pretty much set up and due to lil' ones at home will most likely not change much for a number of years. This Site ever sice the first anniversary has been member funded and as such each year Sam has set a target and each time that target was met within a month or six weeks IIRC. There has never been anything close to an "us" vs "them" atmosphere on this site, and if there was I must be a "them" and am not aware of it! Like most other voluntary organizations those that choose to donate their time will and those of us that feel we need or can donate both time (by posting or replying to posts) and financially will do so. I for one do not look down upon those that do not contribute with dollars.

I have sold several of my jigs to non-members that found me through this fine forum. It has never been my intent to make a living selling jigs, which is a good thing but I think I have been able to help others solve their woodworking problems by selling the few that I have. Without this forum I have doubt that many of the ideas for jigs, mine and other's, would get much notice. If you look to Sam's reasons for starting the legacy of this forum SamConder.com jigs was what it was all about! My point in bringing this up is the fact that this forum from the get-go has been about the free exchange of information and ideas between woodworkers. Anything that would impeade this free exchange IMHO would be a bad thing.

FWIW Bargain Alerts, even though it gets plenty of traffic,
IMHO was never intended to be the main focus of this forum but more a place where members could share what they have discovered so that others could save money in an otherwise expensive hobby. To make it somewhat exclusive, even with good intentions, would be counter productive.

[Ed62]

This thread has garnered a lot of posts! I read the first post when it was posted, and I haven't been back to the thread until just now. FWIW, I sent mine via snail mail before the thread was started. Don't know if Sam and Adele received it yet or not, but it wasn't this thread that forced the issue. Since I don't have a lot of knowledge to share, but a lot to gain, it's certainly worth a few bucks.

Ed

[Adele]

oh, one of the girls crochetted a thong for a guy on the train one day. She only has about a 30 minute ride and she was done in no time.

I'll put an order in for you. I already have your address and I'll front the shipping if Sam will get a picture of the look on your face.

(been nice knowing you guys, I can feel the death rays all the way from Kentucky)

Sam is smarter than that. He likes a nice warm bed to sleep in

As for you remember I have powers..........

[Russianwolf]

I must agree with Lee somewhere this thread has gone very, very, wrong. Belly button link was sad enough, the thong I have learned to live with. Somehow this crochett thong has put me over the edge.

Please for the visions/nightmares I will be having for the next several days STOP!!!!!!!!

Adele

oh, one of the girls crochetted a thong for a guy on the train one day. She only has about a 30 minute ride and she was done in no time.

I'll put an order in for you. I already have your address and I'll front the shipping if Sam will get a picture of the look on your face.

(been nice knowing you guys, I can feel the death rays all the way from Kentucky)

[Adele]

I must agree with Lee somewhere this thread has gone very, very, wrong. Belly button link was sad enough, the thong I have learned to live with. Somehow this crochett thong has put me over the edge.

Please for the visions/nightmares I will be having for the next several days STOP!!!!!!!!

Adele

[Stytooner]

You know, throughout this thread, I really had no worries because I saw a misunderstanding of a suggestion and given the caliber of the members and lurkers here, I knew it would eventually work itself through in a civil manner as it always does. My job as a moderator on this forum is much akin to Barney Fife's job in Mayberry, cept ya'll don't trust me with a real bullet. I wasn't worried about the funding either as that usually takes a little time.

I wasn't worried that is until the belly button lint subject arose.
That was still okay, but then Thom modeling a crochetted belly button lint undergarment is just scary.

As I posted on another thread early this morning that is already buried at this point.. I wasn't aware of the Fund Raiser as I come and go rather quickly and don't have time to dig very deep the majority of time.

I am fortunate to have been doing WW for 35 years and have the majority of what I need with "one day and one tool at a time" over that long haul. So.. I will not comment on what responsiblity I should share or not share.. what perks I should get or not get as a result of sharing or not sharing that responsibility. You fellows that have been around awhile can work out those details.

But... I do recognize the fact that a site such as this that appears to be rather extra-ordinary in the fact it is so friendly and caters to those in real need is around for those that "are" in need (newbies that can get info instantly that I had to turn stones over to get years ago). Some of which would probably like to contribute, but are not necessarily in a financial situation that will allow them to do so. You don't usually look for bargains if you just won the lottery! And for those that would truly like to contribute $$ but just can't, a site such as this would be a great loss IMO.

And.. I do realize that a free site is not really free as I have a friend that runs a free site for muscle car enthusiast.. There are operational cost that can't be avoided and that is a fact!

I don't persoanlly need any recognition.. perks.. bargains.. icons.. and I don't even have a major need to exchange ideas at this point as I can do it elsewhere on corporate sponsored sites that aren't necessarily as friendly or cater to newbie questions.

But with that said... "a check is in the mail" for $100 to make up for a few of those that would like to contribute to keep the site open to benefit but just can't. And if "we" still come up short.. another check will be in the mail until the goal is met or I run out of checks.

I personally feel it's important to those that will carry on long after I have turned off then lights in my own shop for the very last time!

Regards...

[Sam Conder]

I don't think Thom would be as willing to model the rug as he was to wear the thong. He kept saying "I feel pretty".

[Russianwolf]

So....what's for sale today? Did I hear something about a rug?

Regards,
Tom

If you REALLY want one, I know two crochetters on the train. As long as I don't tell them where the yarn comes from, I could get them to make it.

Maybe the Belly lint rug whould become BT3 lore like the thong.

[LowerUnit]

The real reason I'm posting, though, is to throw out a thought: When a behavior or event experiences a negative change, it's usually most profitable to understand why it's changed, and then address that issue at its root source. If fund raising is slower this year--particularly if it is a cause for concern or contention--then we might ask why it's slower. If it's slower because suddenly the BA forum has so many great deals that people are spending their money on bargains instead of contributing to BT3, then maybe changes to BA forum access could help the address the issue (perhaps requiring patronage or even closing the forum down).

On the other hand, if it's because BT3X00 saws or woodworking are becoming less popular since the saw is not available or because people generally have less time for hobbies, then maybe there other other things that can be done (perhaps emphasizing that BT3Central is no longer only about BT3X00 saws, or reaching out to "busy" people to let them know how great woodworking is for a stressed out individual).

C

Maybe the reminder banner or contribution suggestion should be prevalent on a daily basis throughout the year. More people might then understand they can make some kind of contribution when it's financially convenient for them. Currently it has shown up as a new awareness to some and maybe the timing (Christmas, taxes, year end tool closeout deals, etc...) has not made the right here and now contribution moment practical for others.

[Russianwolf]

(perhaps emphasizing that BT3Central is no longer only about BT3X00 saws

um, up at the top of the page it says

"BT3Central.com"
"It's not just about the saw."

Can we be any more obvious?


And people keep saying the saw isn't available any more. The saw is still available through any Sears as long as people are willing to pay at most $450 (less if you catch a sale) for it.

[Sam Conder]

Probably WAY overdue...

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=27632

[Cike]

I found BT3Central about 5 years ago, when I first bought my BT3000. With all the other distractions in my life, I have since then been unable to give much attention to woodworking and even less to BT3Central. One of the reasons I've recently started to lurk here again is because the Bargain Alert forum popped up on my radar during the Christmas shopping season. Since then, I've dropped by frequently for a semi-daily distraction from other stuff. I realize that at this point in time, I'm not adding much (if any) value to the forum, but who knows when that may change. My long winded point is that I don't think I'd be here at all if the Bargain Alerts were locked down. I only noticed the fund raising banner at the top of the screen a few days ago, and made a mental commitment to contribute at that time. Basically, I support Sam's decision 100%+.

The real reason I'm posting, though, is to throw out a thought: When a behavior or event experiences a negative change, it's usually most profitable to understand why it's changed, and then address that issue at its root source. If fund raising is slower this year--particularly if it is a cause for concern or contention--then we might ask why it's slower. If it's slower because suddenly the BA forum has so many great deals that people are spending their money on bargains instead of contributing to BT3, then maybe changes to BA forum access could help the address the issue (perhaps requiring patronage or even closing the forum down).

On the other hand, if it's because BT3X00 saws or woodworking are becoming less popular since the saw is not available or because people generally have less time for hobbies, then maybe there other other things that can be done (perhaps emphasizing that BT3Central is no longer only about BT3X00 saws, or reaching out to "busy" people to let them know how great woodworking is for a stressed out individual).

I, for one, don't see a big concern over being temporarily 23% short of $3500. Frankly, as an outsider, I'm impressed that over $2700 has been collected in such a short period of time. A few reminders (and spirited forum discussions about restricting access) should solve the problem soon enough. If not, I would suggest studying the activity on the site (membership changes, activity changes, etc.) to gain further insight.

Congratulations, all, for your obvious dedication to a good thing!

C

[Tom Miller]

....From the outset I was sure, and I remain sure, that Greg's intentions were nothing but honorable. His suggestion to make Bargain Alerts a patron perk was in no way an attempt to create a "private" or "exclusive" club, nor -- worse yet -- to set up an "us" versus "them" climate.

It's not the first time Larry has beaten me to the punch by posting my exact sentiments, but this point bears emphasis.

The original idea had a lot of merit, but in the end it was clear that it was being interpreted as too exclusionary. I, for one, did not see that coming (at least not so strongly); I'm sure many others didn't, either. So, we can all use a little "benefit of the doubt" from our peers.

And, if this was indeed the most heated argument, then kudos to Sam!

So....what's for sale today? Did I hear something about a rug?

Regards,
Tom

[Russianwolf]

You're not THAT lucky

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=18972

Doh!!!!

Thanks Thom, I think.