Gentle Reminder.

[movnup]

As a previous "lurker" and now a lowly silver patron this is getting a little scary of the "us" versus "them" debate. One of the main draws of this site that made it unique to me was the freely shared information including, but not limited to, the bargain alerts. In the last year I have installed a 480 amp 42 breaker box for my business, a double decker deck that is considered "expert" level, and other high end home improvements but when it comes to true "woodworking" I'm a relative rookie. This site and it’s many members has been invaluable in my learning curve of a hobby I want to do well, safely, and have some good old fun in the process and be proud of what I built.

After being on the executive staff of two dot coms and knowing a “little bit” about web sites the information posted and dialogue was a breath of fresh air compared to other web forums out there. Due to the voluntary basis of the free flow of information I wrote a letter to Sam that I posted to host the complete site if needed for free, help with branding / marketing etc. I also made a voluntary $$$ contribution but it feels like my small number of posts, freely offering my time / talent / server, and $25 contribution doesn't make me one of "us" or even close.

I also love seeing Jeffery's and other people’s bargains even if I don't receive the goods and I've lost bids on e-bay in the last 20 seconds too ... oh well!!! If the forum transitions over to a paid site or ranks people in some way in my humble opinion you lose the flavor, spirit, and most likely the original intent of the founders of why it is some much fun to see what was new, share what people know and don't know in woodworking, as well as freely discuss a whole lot of other different topics.

The net net of all this is that I fear what I personally consider a cool website is quickly transitioning into one that is very uncool and if that is what the "better" members are wanting I’m out of here as one of "us" because I paid and will quickly turn back into a lowly lurker!!!!

[Russianwolf]

I have not saw a lot of cross posting of deals between BT3 BA and FW or SD.

As far as super deals at Lowes and HD, we have to remember that those deals are usually close out / clearance deals which means the stores regular customers are picking up these deals as well. I don't think that BT3, FW, SD, etc. is causing a huge run in B&M stores as relative to % of store sales.

I was just thinking that we are acting like we are the only ones that notice deals and share them with like minded woodworkers. WE AREN'T. How many woodworking forums are out there and clubs that keep eyes on these things too. as a group ( a very fine and friendly group) we are pretty miniscule in the greater scheme of things. So I don't think we can blame sell outs on lurkers here.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I agree, but in the 2 years or so that I've been coming around here, only a fraction of the deals are ones that hadn't already been posted to one of the other general deal sites, like FW, SD, etc.

I have not saw a lot of cross posting of deals between BT3 BA and FW or SD.

As far as super deals at Lowes and HD, we have to remember that those deals are usually close out / clearance deals which means the stores regular customers are picking up these deals as well. I don't think that BT3, FW, SD, etc. is causing a huge run in B&M stores as relative to % of store sales.

[parnelli]

Tom,

Sounds like you've been lucky. There are many posts here where members check three or four Lowes or HD but whatever they were after was gone.

I agree, but in the 2 years or so that I've been coming around here, only a fraction of the deals are ones that hadn't already been posted to one of the other general deal sites, like FW, SD, etc. A good deal posted at FW can get 5000 views in a couple hours so it's going to sell out anyhow.

[Stormbringer]

One thing to point out here is that when Amazon sells out and defaults to a 3rd party, you can usually choose the "More Buying Choices" thingy on the side of the screen and choose Amazon as the seller, buy at the discounted price and just wait for shipping once they have their fullfillment.

Sample : Amazon is sold out of Forrest WWII Full Kerf but by clicking on the mentioned section you get :
[url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000223VQ/ref=dp_olp_1/002-2704846-0142401[/urB

Jeff,

We both know that example

I'm talking about the other scenario's when your too late to the game. HeavyDutyTools.net or Peachtree would've probably been a better example.

Greg

PS Can I submit my request now to join your estore mailing list? Will it be open to patrons of your site only

[Stormbringer]

I've been offline for a couple of days, but I think I definitely missed something around here. If this started from another thread I haven't yet found, would someone link it here?

I don't recall this being such an "us and them" community before. What happened?

Dead, nothing happened and their is no other post. Read post #2. I just suggested a way to boost contributions and in a matter of hours its rained posts. Haven't gotten a **** thing done at work .

"Them" are the lurkers that take advantage of the bargain alerts posted before the good 'ol members, like yourself, have a chance to score one. My suggestion was simply a way to limit the viewing of the most visted thread in hopes to increase the number of patrons by getting the lurkers to join and convincing the members that post regularly to contribute to keep the site running.

However, it's evolved into a broader discussion surrounding Bargain Alerts alone and paying for those that don't contribute, either financially or with knowledgeable input.

That's it in a nutshell.

Best of luck to you.
Greg

EDIT:

PS. Dead, Keep in mind, you gain Patron status by donating $10. I don't know if any confusion was caused by the $100 mentioned in Jeff's post about Platinum Membership.

.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Or clicking the link to the Amazon deal that is now sold by a third party vendor because Joe Dick came along and bought them out so he could sell them on Ebay. Yeah, yeah, capitalism, the American way, right sure. Why do I have to pay for Joe Dick's membership?
Best,
Greg

One thing to point out here is that when Amazon sells out and defaults to a 3rd party, you can usually choose the "More Buying Choices" thingy on the side of the screen and choose Amazon as the seller, buy at the discounted price and just wait for shipping once they have their fullfillment.

Sample : Amazon is sold out of Forrest WWII Full Kerf but by clicking on the mentioned section you get :
[url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000223VQ/ref=dp_olp_1/002-2704846-0142401[/ur/]

Double Edit : I will also add that I sometime post deals at SMC or WN that I put on BT3 first. These are retail deals that are unlimited in supply, such as Rockler, Woodcraft or Amazon. If these deals happen to sell out, these companies will normally back order at the original bargin price. I will not list limited supply stuff, like HDT in other forums. If BT3 BA does become private I personally would not put the bargins on another site if they came from BT3. I do believe other folks would. It's just the way the net is unfortunately. I post in all forums under my real name, so if you see it somewhere else, yes it's probably me.

[Stormbringer]

1. Since access to BA's is unlimited, some "deals" are sold out before other (more deserving?) people get a chance to buy. This hasn't happened to me, personally, nor am I aware of situations where it has happened, so perhaps my comments should be discounted accordingly.

Tom,

Sounds like you've been lucky. There are many posts here where members check three or four Lowes or HD but whatever they were after was gone. Or clicking the link to the Amazon deal that is now sold by a third party vendor because Joe Dick came along and bought them out so he could sell them on Ebay. Yeah, yeah, capitalism, the American way, right sure. Why do I have to pay for Joe Dick's membership?

Best,
Greg

[Deadhead]

I've been offline for a couple of days, but I think I definitely missed something around here. If this started from another thread I haven't yet found, would someone link it here?

I don't recall this being such an "us and them" community before. What happened?

I've been an "us" and I've been a "them". I'm a "them" now. The way my luck has gone the past 4 or 5 months, I'll unfortunately be a "them" for 2007. I enjoy reading the BA's. Like a majority of people, I don't take advantage of most. But it's good to keep up with prices to know what is a bargain and what isn't. Because of said bad luck, I'm having to do a lot of things myself that I would normally hire someone else to do. I very much appreciate being able to save a few bucks on some of the things needed for those tasks. My shop time is nearly zero, unless I'm fixing something around the house or using wood that I've already got onhand. But if you guys think us "thems" shouldn't be able to read or post BA's, that's cool. I'll sit this year out and hope for a better 2008.

[Tom Miller]

Furthermore, I wouldn't expect anyone to pony up $$ for membership until they've been around for several months to see how the place suits them. I wouldn't want to miss out on any of their BA's during that time.

If they want to "get in" on the bargains, contribute $10.

What I meant was, I don't want to miss out on any of their bargains that they're not allowed to post until they join.

I don't think someone would deliberatly post a bargain alert in the home-improvement forum to get back at us.

No, I don't think they'd do it maliciously, but perhaps with the best of intentions.

But, I think I'm missing a couple main points that are fueling this discussion:

1. Since access to BA's is unlimited, some "deals" are sold out before other (more deserving?) people get a chance to buy. This hasn't happened to me, personally, nor am I aware of situations where it has happened, so perhaps my comments should be discounted accordingly.

2. That there are non-member posters that are making money by posting BA's. Is this true? Did I get that right? Again, I haven't seen it myself.

To be clear, I don't feel strongly one way or the other -- it's a good discussion....

Regards,
Tom

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Interesting thread. I am the first to admit I have "made money" off of Bargain Alerts. My wife would argue that since it all goes to tools! When I find Bessey 2440 clamp kits for $67, you are darn straight I am going to buy 20 of them and then I am going to resell a bunch of them, 2 clamps at a time on Ebay. My "profit" in that deal is going to pay for the clamps I keep. These types of deals don't interfere with others ability to get those same clamps at the same price (though you may have to wait on shipping if they sell through).
Bargain Alerts is kind of like a game for me. That is a good way of putting it. I like finding 25% code that stacks with a 20% off code and free shipping. I am glad that everyone is able to take advantage of them.
I also have a source to buy limited quantities of new tools for resell. I did that with a bunch of table saw a couple of months ago. I sold them for a killer price and I also gave BT3 members the first shot at them. Similarly I have a bunch of stuff coming in next week that I gave BT3 members first shot at. I do make money off these deals. That’s why I gave the $100 platinum contribution. If my personal deals continue and this goes well I will likely open a estore and give BT3 folks first shot. They will be even more limited than HDT, so I have to figure if I want to take heat for that?!?!?
ANYWAY, back to the topic at hand, I would like to see BA "privatized" if we do not exceed the $3500 mark. I see two potential problems with limiting access. One, as previously noted, the volume of deals may decrease. Two, and this is the big one (maybe), is that BT3 gets credit for every sell that is clicked on through BT3. So if a non-paying lurker clicks on a bargain alert clamp deal at Rockler, BT3 gets some of the money back from Rockler. Same for Amazon and Woodcraft. Would we be shooting ourselves in the foot there? What kind of $ is being generated from the Google Ads, Amazon, Rockler and WC? Note : I am not asking for $ figures, I am asking is it worth limiting access if BT3 is making $ by non-paid folks clicking through.

[mpauly]

I am a member for a year now, but a patron for less than a month (did not even know earlier that i could contribute financially).

My reason for contributing is purely a mark of appreciation for the site. But my personal take is that only those who have that level of appreciation for this site should pay. Not because they are forced, nor because they want to avoid hitting brick-walls while posting.

If anybody takes advantage of a BA before me, I am just the unluckier of the lot. It will not matter whether that other person is a patron or just a member or even just a lurker. While I might curse my luck (or lack thereof), I am not gonna blame somebody else who was quicker with the mouse or had a better timing. I am very confident that my fellow site-members will dig up more (and bigger) BAs for me to take advantage of tomorrow.

And also, there are patrons and then there are patrons : silver, gold, etc. So do we discriminate there too ....?

Ok, that last was pure mischief : the voices made me do it

Ditto. Just sent in my Patron subscription (also didn't know until last week that I could contribute).

Michael

Edit: Yeah, Yeah, I know it's on the top of each page, but I honestly never really noticed the "2007 Fund Drive". Too busy getting to the BA forum ;-)

[Stytooner]

So is this thread officially hijacked??

Yep, but my initial post was off topic for this forum anyway. You just never know what kind of a reply you might get.
Good discussion, though.

[Stormbringer]

Definitely not directed at anyone but, to avoid getting the wrong idea,

PLEASE READ THE POSTS THAT MAKE UP THIS THREAD BEFORE REPLYING

Here's a way of thinking that hasn't entered my mind until someone just PM'd me.

Why should I have to pay when others don't...especially lurkers who make money off this site? Now you say "But Greg, it's strictly voluntary". But, hello? If those of us that contributed didn't, there wouldn't be a BT3Central.com. I don't mind since I wouldn't expect Sam to have flip the bill to keep this site up in addition to the time he's already invested. Do you?

Since it seems to have been missed the first three times I posted it, my suggestion was to keep all the info on the saw, the tips, the reviews, the tool talk would still available for FREE. One of those threads is what probably initially got you here when you did your internet search, not a deal on extension cords.

Ric's idea of giving first access to Patrons is a good idea too. Make lurkers, who don't think the site is valuble enough to support, wait two days before getting their greedy paws on a potential deal.

Greg

[TheRic]

Craigslist: I would guess Members Classified since it's a classified add. The person can add (as they do now) that they are not selling it.

Menard's:There is a Menard's going up near me, about 20 miles away. The next closest is 45 miles away. Rockler, Lee Valley, Woodcraft, etc one of those (forget which one) is only 90 miles away, the others are further away. If your going to cut Menard's because it's more than 100 miles away from you, you got to cut the others. Heck I'll bet there are people here that are 100+ miles away from a Home Depot or a Lowe's. If a store is regional then I think it should be in Bargain Alerts.