Gentle Reminder.

[parnelli]

Tom,

Sounds like you've been lucky. There are many posts here where members check three or four Lowes or HD but whatever they were after was gone.

I agree, but in the 2 years or so that I've been coming around here, only a fraction of the deals are ones that hadn't already been posted to one of the other general deal sites, like FW, SD, etc. A good deal posted at FW can get 5000 views in a couple hours so it's going to sell out anyhow.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I agree, but in the 2 years or so that I've been coming around here, only a fraction of the deals are ones that hadn't already been posted to one of the other general deal sites, like FW, SD, etc.

I have not saw a lot of cross posting of deals between BT3 BA and FW or SD.

As far as super deals at Lowes and HD, we have to remember that those deals are usually close out / clearance deals which means the stores regular customers are picking up these deals as well. I don't think that BT3, FW, SD, etc. is causing a huge run in B&M stores as relative to % of store sales.

[Russianwolf]

I have not saw a lot of cross posting of deals between BT3 BA and FW or SD.

As far as super deals at Lowes and HD, we have to remember that those deals are usually close out / clearance deals which means the stores regular customers are picking up these deals as well. I don't think that BT3, FW, SD, etc. is causing a huge run in B&M stores as relative to % of store sales.

I was just thinking that we are acting like we are the only ones that notice deals and share them with like minded woodworkers. WE AREN'T. How many woodworking forums are out there and clubs that keep eyes on these things too. as a group ( a very fine and friendly group) we are pretty miniscule in the greater scheme of things. So I don't think we can blame sell outs on lurkers here.

[movnup]

As a previous "lurker" and now a lowly silver patron this is getting a little scary of the "us" versus "them" debate. One of the main draws of this site that made it unique to me was the freely shared information including, but not limited to, the bargain alerts. In the last year I have installed a 480 amp 42 breaker box for my business, a double decker deck that is considered "expert" level, and other high end home improvements but when it comes to true "woodworking" I'm a relative rookie. This site and it’s many members has been invaluable in my learning curve of a hobby I want to do well, safely, and have some good old fun in the process and be proud of what I built.

After being on the executive staff of two dot coms and knowing a “little bit” about web sites the information posted and dialogue was a breath of fresh air compared to other web forums out there. Due to the voluntary basis of the free flow of information I wrote a letter to Sam that I posted to host the complete site if needed for free, help with branding / marketing etc. I also made a voluntary $$$ contribution but it feels like my small number of posts, freely offering my time / talent / server, and $25 contribution doesn't make me one of "us" or even close.

I also love seeing Jeffery's and other people’s bargains even if I don't receive the goods and I've lost bids on e-bay in the last 20 seconds too ... oh well!!! If the forum transitions over to a paid site or ranks people in some way in my humble opinion you lose the flavor, spirit, and most likely the original intent of the founders of why it is some much fun to see what was new, share what people know and don't know in woodworking, as well as freely discuss a whole lot of other different topics.

The net net of all this is that I fear what I personally consider a cool website is quickly transitioning into one that is very uncool and if that is what the "better" members are wanting I’m out of here as one of "us" because I paid and will quickly turn back into a lowly lurker!!!!

[Brian G]

I don't feel that I've ever lost out on some fantastic deal where I felt people who can visit the BA forum throughout the day had an unfair advantage. I don't have a strong opinion.

If there is a perceived problem with non-members "camping" in the BA forum, and this causes an unfair advantage, then is there a way to require that one must be logged in to the forum in order to view the BA forum?

This at least requires a viewer to be a registered member. (EDIT) I'm not suggesting that people have to pay to play. . . just be a registered member in order to read the BA forum)

On the craigslist issue. . . my guess is that anyone who is aware that it exists, probably checks their local list on a regular basis anyway. I question the value of posting these kinds of links. . . sort of like a BT3CentralList for craigslist.

I don't mind BAs for regional stores that cover multistates (e.g., the Menards example). Up until a few years ago, there were no Lowes in my area, (those Delta clearance alerts were AGONIZING to read at a time when I was assembling my tool arsenal ), but I wasn't bothered that others could take advantage of those valuable alerts.

I'm sure I've missed many opportunities, but I'm either too oblivious, too ambivalent, or too cash poor to worry too much about it.

This is a great place.

[supper shaun]

Just a thought, is it possible for the person submitting the post to mark it a "member only" post when submitting?

[Stormbringer]

As a previous "lurker" and now a lowly silver patron this is getting a little scary of the "us" versus "them" debate. One of the main draws of this site that made it unique to me was the freely shared information including, but not limited to, the bargain alerts. In the last year I have installed a 480 amp 42 breaker box for my business, a double decker deck that is considered "expert" level, and other high end home improvements but when it comes to true "woodworking" I'm a relative rookie. This site and it’s many members has been invaluable in my learning curve of a hobby I want to do well, safely, and have some good old fun in the process and be proud of what I built.

After being on the executive staff of two dot coms and knowing a “little bit” about web sites the information posted and dialogue was a breath of fresh air compared to other web forums out there. Due to the voluntary basis of the free flow of information I wrote a letter to Sam that I posted to host the complete site if needed for free, help with branding / marketing etc. I also made a voluntary $$$ contribution but it feels like my small number of posts, freely offering my time / talent / server, and $25 contribution doesn't make me one of "us" or even close.

I also love seeing Jeffery's and other people’s bargains even if I don't receive the goods and I've lost bids on e-bay in the last 20 seconds too ... oh well!!! If the forum transitions over to a paid site or ranks people in some way in my humble opinion you lose the flavor, spirit, and most likely the original intent of the founders of why it is some much fun to see what was new, share what people know and don't know in woodworking, as well as freely discuss a whole lot of other different topics.

The net net of all this is that I fear what I personally consider a cool website is quickly transitioning into one that is very uncool and if that is what the "better" members are wanting I’m out of here as one of "us" because I paid and will quickly turn back into a lowly lurker!!!!

READ THE POSTS!

It was NEVER suggested to make BT3 Central a paid site.
It was NEVER suggested to "Rank" people based on their contribution.
It was NEVER suggested to contribute more than $25. $10 was the number mentioned and that's only because it's the lowest amount of the options.
Silver patron status is not "lowly".
$25 is not a "measly" contribution.
There are no "Better" members
There is no "us". As I said in 10 other posts. "Them" are the one's who look to profit from this site w/o making a contribution either financially or knowledge based.

What are your intentions? Seriously?

Read the first 18 posts. The concensus was favorable until distortion took over. Read post #2

IT WAS A SUGGESTION TO BOOST CONTRIBUTIONS! READ POST #2
IT WAS A SUGGESTION TO GET THOSE WHO BENEFIT FROM THE SITE TO SHOW THEIR APPRECIATION FOR BENEFITING.

BT3CENTRAL.COM is sponsered by the members who contribute. Please read the posts before posting.

Maybe I have my facts distorted.
Sam, what would happen if no members contributed? Ad's galore? No more site? What? Just put it out there so these folks don't think there were alterior motives to the initial suggestion that was received favorably.

Thanks much,
Greg

[paintandbodtman]

I have been following this thread and find it very interesting. I also am more of a lurker then participant, I have started to contribute a couple of times and something always came up that took priority as far as money was concerned but after following this thread and to be as blunt as the OP I will have to say I'm kinda glad I have'nt contributed as of yet, not because I begrudge this site the monies as it is a very useful and informitive site but simply because I have never had the desire to become one of the elitist snobs that think ther're better and more deserving just because they have a little more money then others to throw around. I'm sure I'll get flamed for my take on all this but thats ok also, no offense meant towards anyone but those who would take offense to this are in my opinion the ones that do feel elitist. I have enjoyed it while it lasted tho and as far as the BA forum goes I got more of a kick out of reading about how some of you acted or reacted to the posts as I did trying to take advantage of the bargins. Guess I've ranted enough hope whatever you decide to do it works out for the best for the most of you.

Wayne

[Stormbringer]

I have been following this thread and find it very interesting. I also am more of a lurker then participant, I have started to contribute a couple of times and something always came up that took priority as far as money was concerned but after following this thread and to be as blunt as the OP I will have to say I'm kinda glad I have'nt contributed as of yet, not because I begrudge this site the monies as it is a very useful and informitive site but simply because I have never had the desire to become one of the elitist snobs that think ther're better and more deserving just because they have a little more money then others to throw around. I'm sure I'll get flamed for my take on all this but thats ok also, no offense meant towards anyone but those who would take offense to this are in my opinion the ones that do feel elitist. I have enjoyed it while it lasted tho and as far as the BA forum goes I got more of a kick out of reading about how some of you acted or reacted to the posts as I did trying to take advantage of the bargins. Guess I've ranted enough hope whatever you decide to do it works out for the best for the most of you.

Wayne

Wayne,

I can't make my initial intentions any clearer. It was a suggestion, to limit Bargain Alert access to Patrons to boost sponsorship of the site. As it was indicated in Hank's original reminder, the site survives on member donations. This was a suggestion as a way to boost donations. That's it. The defensive tone grew from posts, like yours, that distorted the original suggestion that takes things out of context to "stir the pot". People respond to these and it just snowballs.

As noted in Hanks thread, if members don't support the site, there's no more site.

Regards,
Greg

[krogers]

I have been a member for a long time, but I rarely get to post. I have read many BA's, but I rarely get to take advantage of them. I think I remember one clamp deal from Amazon. In general I read the BA's but that just keeps me up to date on deals out there. Can anyone quantify or cite an example of the claim that others/lurkers are taking advantage of deals and shutting out the patron members of our forum? Personally I don't feel that I have missed out on any deals. I like having the Menards and Craiglist post even though I can't take advantage of them. I check the BT3 site more than any other, so BA's referencing Craiglist have pointed me toward bargains I would have otherwise missed.

I think that the something on our site would be lost if we restrict a portion of it. I vote for no restrictions. But with a caveat. Only if we make the required donation goal by voluntary payments. I have benefitted from all of the information on this site. Very little of it specifically from BA. Most of the money I have saved came from advice on home projects. (And most of that came directly or indirectly from Loring. Thanks Loring.) So other than paying Loring directly I need to give back to the site. I think one of Greg's intitial reasons for posting was to remind/encourage us all to donate. In the spirit of that kick in the pants I will go make my contribution. Maybe if others did the same we could keep this all forums an open and friendly place. - Kevin

[Crockett]

Interesting stuff. Its nice to see so much passion pouring out about the site. I am a patron and will sign on again in a few days when my subscription runs out (perhaps others are also coming due soon which should help increase the pot). After reading all the posts, as Gregg suggests, I feel that there are probably enough people who do appreciate the efforts of Sam and the mods to hit the goal (this is not the first campain) to keep the site going. Privatizing ANY portion of the site for those who pay sounds to me like unintentionally opening the door for future fees and charges to belong. For those who feel this site has a value and are able to give, great, for others who maybe aren't able to give, I'm happy to help keep it going for you, for those that may be stealing bargains, or somehow taking avantage of the site, well that's society. The intention to get more people to dontate is nice, but honestly I think it will happen without being pushy or trying to become exclusive.
Al

[Stytooner]

I have pretty much kept my mouth shut and probably should still, but I feel there should not be any patrons only areas and especially not the bargain alerts. Guys are posting these bargains freely enough. In keeping with the spirit of which it was originally setup, it is to SHARE deals and info, not to hold such info hostage. I do understand that some may feel that because they missed out on a deal, it's because this info was available to all. Perhaps so, but that is why the whole forum exists. To freely share the info, whatever that may entail. This is the true spirit of this entire forum. This should not change. Any new Patrons or Members only perks should not include info of any type. To do so would encroach on our most valuable resource, which is sharing information that may ultimately benefit another, regardless of whether they are a Patron or not. Anyone that posts any useful information is a Patron IMHO. No one wears a crown around here. You can't count Adele's tiara.

I'm just calling it like I see it and everyone has an opinion, but I feel changing the status quo on this issue would be an error.

[ryan.s]

For those who feel this site has a value and are able to give, great, for others who maybe aren't able to give, I'm happy to help keep it going for you, for those that may be stealing bargains, or somehow taking avantage of the site, well that's society. The intention to get more people to dontate is nice, but honestly I think it will happen without being pushy or trying to become exclusive.
Al

Well said.

[ChrisD]

For a second, I thought after all the arguments, the next logical step would be to do a poll on this issue. But I realized that doing that would entail the same (if not higher) level of discussion that this post has seen so far!

I mean, to include non-contributors in the poll pretty much defeats the purpose of it. On the other hand, a contributor-only poll doesn't really befit this place. But wouldn't that exercise be a good prototype for what the site would be like if part of it became exclusive?

[JSCOOK]

Well, I'll throw in my 2 cents on this ...

IMHO, I'm against making the BA's for patrons only ... there's simply too many variations why someone hasn't contributed to restrict it ... and I feel it would only be the start killing the feeling that this place has that attracted us here in the first place.

I think the idea of having to actually "sign in" to view them is a much better idea if something needs to be done ... at least it would help with the lurking if it's really that BIG a deal to some ... and it would be easy to see who else is actually viewing (not that it ever mattered to me).

Before I decided to contribute, I looked around for a while to be sure this was a place I actually wanted to be part of ... and contribute both time and $$$ to ... and I too will admit one of the things that I found most entertaining about here, was peoples reactions (often humours) to BA postings, and the open and friendly atmosphere.

Here's another thought or perspective on this BA issue ...
For the most part, the BA section is almost completely useless to those of us "north of the 49th parallel" ... our BORG's are completely different both deals & prices, heck LOWES & HF doesn't even exist here, Rockler & Woodcraft screw us Canadians with their shipping fees, and then there is the beloved Amazon which treats us up here as if we're North Korea ... thank God "Lee Valley" is atleast Canadian! ... for some of us, lost access to the BA's would be no big deal.

So being a Northerner, the ONLY deal I've benefited from the BA's was from Holbren (thanks for actually shipping here!) since registering as a member ... Hence the reason I've personally tried to make an effort to post a few BA's that might help those few of us on the other side of 49th ... and helping bring a little more interest for us all as a community.

Come on guys, and get over the deals you missed out on ... I'm sure that they were posted on other websites out there besides BT3 ... and consider yourselves lucky to atleast have the option to get in on them.