HF 2HP DC Bargain Alert - $120

[ryan.s]

Any chance someone can scan the ad and post it here? I'm in the midst of making a dust collection decision as well. I guess you really can't beat the HF for the money but I'm curious to see what the actual CFM rate is for this unit in real life situations. Anyone ever run any tests on the HF like they did in the April 2006 issue no. 183 of Fine Woodworking? The test showed that in actual usage with a seasoned filter (Wynn), seasoned filter meaning 10lbs of dust was loaded into the filter to simulate real life conditions, only 3 out of the 10 units tested pulled more than the required 800 cfm for an acceptable amount of time. The three units being delta 50-760, grizzly g1028z, and jet dc 1100a. Many of the units didn't even start above the 800 cfm with the only resistance being the wynn filter. Of course the HF unit was not a part of the test, I would have loved to see how it actually compared to the others. The others being bridgewood bw-105a, craftsman 21337, delta 50-850, general 10-105, jds dust force, penn state dc2v2, and shop fox w1685. All the units tested were 1 1/2 HP models. The detla 50760 received the most praise.

[wassaw998]

Ryan,

I do not know how the HF would have came out in the tests, but, most of what I have read indicates the HF specs (Both HP and CFM) are overrated, which apparently is true of a lot of DC's. You can do some searches, I did at one time find a site with some #'s.

The HF unit is indeed a bargain esp @ the $149 minus 20% price point, and I own one (You def want to upgrade the bags on the HF, but as you can see from Jeffrey's post, the bags are not that pricey). However, were I to buy a DC today, I'd eat the $100 difference and go with the Delta 50-760. Note on either purchase, you will still need to get hoses, etc...That is, none are ready to go "out of the box". I'm just getting to the place where I am finding sometimes bargains are not such bargains if/when you end up upgrading the item later....(note, actual milage may vary..)

[Knottscott]

Dust,

Does the ad say how long the sale price is good for?

Thanks,
Greg

Hi Greg - Not sure about an expiration on the ad prices....I'll have to get back to you tomorrow.

Regarding upgraded bags - The Grizzly bags G0556 bags should fit....on sale for $20 plus s/h.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g5556

Regarding specs and comparison performance. Many DC's have optimistic specs. The HF motor has been tested and found to be closer to 1.5hp rather than 2hp, plus it has a smaller impeller than many 2hp, so it's logical that it's CFM is slightly lower. That doesn't mean it's not sufficient, and judging by the responses from owners, it is sufficient. I do know that the motor can't be converted from 110v to 220v, and that it's not uncommon for the switch to have some issues. Still likes like a good deal considering the nearest competition is closer to $300 delivered. Even at $200 with upgraded bags, you're doing well for the money IMO, as long as it holds on for a few years.

[ironhat]

I've also been relatively happy with my HF DC. I wasn't aware of the switch problem that Dustmight mentioned but that could be because I've installed a remote switch. I have also recently been hearing some bearing noise which I haven't tracked down because the unit is buried in the other bay of the garage. I'm not sure if there are other bearings that could go bad besides in the motor. Still a good buy.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Seems a bit misleading in their advertising. The top of the add says .3 Micron Dust Bag, which would be an incrediably efficient bag, but the text below says 2.5 microns. That is a huge difference. FWIW the bags made by Process Systems are 1 micron.

Hi Greg - Not sure about an expiration on the ad prices....I'll have to get back to you tomorrow.

Regarding upgraded bags - The Grizzly bags G0556 bags should fit....on sale for $20 plus s/h.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g5556

Regarding specs and comparison performance. Many DC's have optimistic specs. The HF motor has been tested and found to be closer to 1.5hp rather than 2hp, plus it has a smaller impeller than many 2hp, so it's logical that it's CFM is slightly lower. That doesn't mean it's not sufficient, and judging by the responses from owners, it is sufficient. I do know that the motor can't be converted from 110v to 220v, and that it's not uncommon for the switch to have some issues. Still likes like a good deal considering the nearest competition is closer to $300 delivered. Even at $200 with upgraded bags, you're doing well for the money IMO, as long as it holds on for a few years.

[Knottscott]

Dust,

Does the ad say how long the sale price is good for?

Thanks,
Greg

Sale price is good until Jan 07, but the current 20% coupon expires 5/20/06....there will likely be another one along soon though.

[ssmith1627]

Is the sale price really $150 ? Or $180 ? The website just shows $180. Do I need to take that article in with me if I want to pick it up ?

Thanks for any advice on it.

Steve

[burrellski]

CFM Test Data

Anyone ever run any tests on the HF like they did in the April 2006 issue no. 183 of Fine Woodworking?

Wynn has some test data for their filter conversion on this collector.

"Airflow -New Filter- 560 CFM in the 4" inlet pipe (6300 fpm)
-Seasoned Filter- 330 CFM in the 4" inlet pipe (3800 fpm)"

Not any too impressive.

[Knottscott]

Is the sale price really $150 ? Or $180 ? The website just shows $180. Do I need to take that article in with me if I want to pick it up ?

Thanks for any advice on it.

Steve

I'd take the ad in....much harder to debate. The item number comes up for $180 on their website.

[Tarheel]

It was on sale for $169.00 at the store yesterday.

I took a copy of the add from the American WWK'ing magazine (which stated on sale for $149.00 until January/07). They looked at the ad, changed the price to $149.00. I then gave them a HF 20% off coupon and they adjusted the price again down to $119.00.

I walked out with the DC for $119.00 + NC State sales tax!

Make sure that you take a copy of the ad with you! (I tried to insert the ad into one of my posts earlier today, but it was evidently too big and I couldn't figure out how to do it! If you need a copy, PM me with your EMail address and I will pass it along.)

Good Luck,

Wayne

[ryan.s]

Wynn has some test data for their filter conversion on this collector.

"Airflow -New Filter- 560 CFM in the 4" inlet pipe (6300 fpm)
-Seasoned Filter- 330 CFM in the 4" inlet pipe (3800 fpm)"

Not any too impressive.

Wow that's a huge drop in performance from the 1600 cfm they quote in their ad. It's about 1/5 of what it's rated as... they must get those figures while running it with no hoses and bags.

I was almost all set for buying the HF but now I'm not so sure... either pay $120 plus tax for 330 cfm or $300 for 800 + cfm for the delta. I should of picked up the delta when amazon had the 75 off 300 with free shipping a while back.. dang it!

[wassaw998]

Those #'s are pretty bad, plus when you consider the #'s quoted (w/their cart filter) are better then using a bag, that makes matters even worse for those of us with bags on the HF DC..

The first thing you will notice upon startup is a huge increase in airflow, as compared to the original bag arrangement. This is due to the large surface area of the cartridge filter. The air laws tell us that doubling the surface area of a filter results in a four-fold decrease in pressure. The stock bags offer about 35 sq. ft. of area, so the 300 sq. ft. cartridge makes a big difference.

I guess you can use those #'s and apply them to the FWW article you mentioned and make your own conclusion. Like I said, were I buying a DC today, I'd get the Delta 50-760.

Finally, if the HF is only pulling 330 cfm (or less), well...need I say it ?

[ironhat]

I would say that your satisfaction with the HF unit is dependent on the length of your runs and how many open gates you think that you'll leave open. My HF works dandy on one 20' run with multiple 10' hose runs but only one gate (sometimes two if I forget to close a gate) - no complaints even for heavy producers like a surface planer or jointer. When I'm using my router I mount a floor sweep on the edge of th table to catch the tailings and even in such a wild fling of cuttings it does really well. Without a doubt the greater the cfm's the better. I'm just saying that satisfaction is relative to needs. For many small shops the HF is an economical and effective choice.
Opinions as well as satisfaction will vary in our shops. Just remember to have fun with it and don't lose sleep before and after the decision.
Latr,
Chiz

[LarryG]

I don't have the FWW comparo in front of me (I do have the issue at home), so I can't recall how they tested the various units; specifically, whether they did a test with a "seasoned" bag or filter. I want to say that they did not. As I recall the results, the HF unit likely would not have fared too badly when one considers the motor HP (they say it's 2HP but it's really more like 1.5), impeller diameter, and above all, out-the-door price.

The much-lower real-world performance vs the stated CFMs is not unusual. ALL the manufacturers grossly inflate this number, and as I recall the FWW test bore this out.

Lastly, it's virtually always meaningless to compare the results of one test to those of another, completely different test. Too many variables, too many unknowns, in how the two different testing agencies went about their business.

At the full, current, regular price of ~$250 the HF unit is overpriced to the point that a prudent shopper will look at the alternatives. But at the $125-$150 out-the-door price that most of us paid, it's a bargain (and with a bag or filter upgrade, it compares more favorably to the others than you might think).

[vaking]

Larry,
I disagree with you in some conclusions (although please keep in mind this comes from somebody who uses 3/4 HP jet DC from Costco):
The fact that HF DC comes with lousy manual and you may need to redrill some holes or some other details is not significant. All it means that you will spend extra 2 hours assembling this thing once. The fact that you paid only $120 for it instead of $250 is nice but also not very significant. 2 years later you will remember it was cheap but you will not remember the price exactly. The fact that the collector is underpowered and leaves dust behind you will remember for as long as you use it. You will get reminded about it constantly. Lower price is an insentive to overlook convinience features, poor manuals, complex assembly, etc. But nothing is an incentive to forgive inadequate performance. Overall - determine minimum requirements and look for the best price among the tools that meet the requirements. Do not compromise your core requirements for the price.