Where should we move to? (Long)

[Otter]

One more plug for New Mexcio. Las Cruces area. This is what I used to wake up to in the AM, what a view

[ElRay]

quote:Originally posted by LarryG

You know what I'm getting from this thread?

That there sure are a lot of great places to live in this big ole wunnerful country of ours.

Amen to that. If it weren't for the fact the satellite internet is too laggy for telnet/ssh/etc., and the fact that we really like a home with all the nooks and crannies (ala Sudanka's "Not so Big House" books), the solution would be just buy a big motor home and drive around as the mood suits us.

I was expecting just a few replies and that I'd be able to kind of fine tune things by replying to each post. Wow -- that ain't gonna happen, so I'll just throw-out some comments:

• Found a list of top-outdoor activity cities. Both Portlands (ME & OR) were mentioned, Madison, WI, Burlignton, VT and some of the other cities folks have mentioned here. One surprise was Provo, UT. Any have any reasonably first hand info about this city?
• Regarding humidity, NoIL (very similar to Baltimore, MD) is about as humid as we can go and SoCal was about as dry as we'd like to go (but we could go a bit drier). Upstate NY and most of VT are just about right. Portland, ME is also a bit too humid, but on the cold side.
• Regarding acreage, we're thinking more "old farm" and less "Estate with a McMansion"
• I actually have a bit more freedom IT-wise because the main office is in Passadena, CA, so I don't have to be near potential clients. I just can't be four miles past where the cable stops, or more than two miles from the nearest CO, otherwise I'd think seriously about buying the property my folks sold when my Dad transferred from Fort Drum to DC.
• Madison, WI isn't really nixed, it's just not exact enough to say "No need to look any more". I'd be fine, but my wife is a bit worried that there will still be too much of "The Midwest Attitude" that we run into. Admittedly, it's less here (Norht Central IL) than it was down in Naperville, Shaumburg, Hoffman Estates, Bartlette, St. Charles, etc.
• I hope I don't offend anybody, but Columbus is really the only city I like in Ohio, but Cincinnati has done quite a bit with the Skyway downtown, and the new Mud Hens stadium in Toledo should be the model for all minor-league ball teams, so I'll try to keep a more open eye the next time I'm down that way (but don't get your hopes-up for Toledo, it's a bit too post-Industrial Era Boom rundown for me -- Although it does have a good brew-pub downtown). Also, I'm not familiar with any rock climbing in Ohio. Or is Columbus close enough to the Red River Gorge (KY) or Jackson Falls (IL) (or some place I don't know about) that weekend trips aren't too tough?
• Again, no offence intended, but as much as I do like things about Portland and Seattle, everytime I've been up there, it's been too rainy for me. Could just be my dumb luck and poor timing.
• Hopefully I'll dogge one more "You insulted my town bullet, but Pittsburg seemed to have that same past it's peak, which was during the Industrial Boom, run down, steel town, feel. Again, it's been a while, plus I was just passing through, so I didn't really have a chance to see much off the beaten path.
• Been to Toronto, Calgary, Ontario, Vancouver (both of them actually), Montreal and Edmonton. I like Toronto and Calgary, but I'm not keen on provincial politics outside of Alberta (especially not BC's or Quebec's) and Federal politics seems to be swinging to far into Socialism for my comfort.
• I lived in Baltimore for four years. My brother wouldn't mind going back (He's in Boston), but I'm not quite ready. Maybe down the road. My sister did High School in Columbia, MD, and I'm not too impressed with the schooling she got.
• New Mexico does have a lot of appeal, but I was thinking more allong the lines of Taos (sp?) -- they advertised big time out here this winter for skiing. Also, since the park service has pretty much killed climbing at Hueco Tanks, there's less appeal for the Texas-side of the state.
• The greater NYC area has always maintained a lot of appeal, but we'd have to come to terms with being urban and then escaping to nature instead of the other way around. Also that would bring us back to the land of traffic jams for everybody, not just the 9-5 crowd.
• Pheonix has had some appeal, but we've been to Vegas in the summer, Ok for a weekend, but if Pheonix is close, I'd be hiding in the AC all summer long.
• I spent three months in San Antonio, TX, kinda liked Austin (my sister's there now and loves it), but again we're talking hide in the AC weather.
• Highest concentration of PhD's got me thinking: Where's the highest concentration of Heinlein fans?

Thanks all. Please keep adding to the thread. I really think we're gonna hafta wait until the little one can do road trips and just start touring the US looking for a place filled (but not too crowded) with educated, highly driven, cosmopolitan, high-tech, outdoor enthusists, ethnic food loving, blue-collar, fix your own messes, we can still have fun if the power's out, know when to kick back and relax, I made it myself because I could dump the $'s I would have spent on labor into better materials, it's the man's job to kill the bear, but if he's not here, I'll just do it myself, people.

Ray

[dedaddy]

I think you should look at the Pittsburg area also. They have really improved the area. Another is Morgantown, WV.

I'm a Heinlein fan also. I think I have all of his books, some editions from the 50's that I bought when I was in grade and high school.

[RainShadow]

Here is my list : Boise; Bend, OR and areas around Portland; areas just North of Seattle ( a little wet though); Spokane, WA; Sequim, WA; and areas around Flagstaff,AZ.
Good luck with your search and keep us posted.
PS: I amost moved to both Portland and Seattle, but the cost of living/income ratio was just about as bad as San Diego, CA. The cost of living was lower but so was the income.
I guess I will just have to live out my days in Oceanside, CA.
Randy

[JR]

Oh, well if it's skiing your after.....!!!!

Provo's great. The best snow in the world at Snowbird and Alta. Park City's nice, too. They're both in Utah. If you think midwesterners tend to the narrow minded, Utah might a bit constrictive.

Taos is great. It's a small town in some of the most beautiful territory you can imagine. I haven't been to the ski hill since the founder died, but I can tell you it was one of the best resorts in the US. Anecdote: the first time the founder saw a lift line, he got hot chocolate and donuts and personally served those waiting. It's that kind of place. Nothing else around it, though....

Jackson, Wyoming, might be worth considering. The ski hill is big - real big. The town is a sizable town. It's right near Yellowstone. Skiing at Grand Targhee, not far away, is snorkel deep.

How about Gold Country, California? Pretty oak-studded hills, good weather, drive up to the snow at Squaw Valley and Lake Tahoe area.

During one of my many mid-life-crises I considered all these place (Telluride was really in my sights for a while). Never pulled the trigger. Sigh.

JR

[Carlos]

quote:Pheonix has had some appeal, but we've been to Vegas in the summer, Ok for a weekend, but if Pheonix is close, I'd be hiding in the AC all summer long.

Tucson is quite a bit cooler and drier. It's also a nicer place to live. I was there for 15 years, and travelled the country for work. Never found another place I wanted to be, though I had some offers. Now I live in Phoenix, due to a great work opportunity combined with LOML's great work situation, so I make do. I live 25 miles away from work so I can pretend I don't live in the middle of a huge city.

[goofydad]

Hi Ray

Well here is my opinion. I live in New Hampshire about 50-60 miles north of Boston. I am 50-60 minutes south of White and Cathedral ledge for climbing. 35 minutes from Winnie and a bunch fo other clean deep lakes. 20 minutes or less to the ocean, You can still get 10 acres and house for 200-250 if you look a little lots of old farms around. Bargains to be had if you look we bought our house 4 1/2 year ago 200year old colonial 2400 sq ft oversized 3 car workshop I mean garage in ground gunite pool for $125,000 it needed work but we put less then 45 into it and is a nice place to live. We have UNH next to us there is Dartmouth to the northwest, Bates in Maine then all Mass has to offer.

Very low crime rate, we were thinking of moving ourselves but didn't know where else we wanted to raise our 6 year old. Burlington Vermont is very appealing though.

Good luck in your choice and email me if there is any info or question on New Hampster I can help you with. Dave Goofydad Dionne

[ElRay]

Note to Sam:

Cheer-up, KY isn't at the bottom (at least spending wise):

• Lowest per-pupil spending for 2002-03: Utah ($4,907), Arizona ($5,197), Alabama ($5,418), Arkansas ($5,789) and Mississippi ($5,822) (Table H-11).
• Lowest average teacher salary for 2002-03: South Dakota ($32,416), North Dakota ($33,869) and Mississippi ($34,555) (Table C-11)
• Average teacher salaries declined in 18 states over the past 10 years in real, inflation-adjusted dollars. The largest declines were Alaska (-16.6%), Connecticut (-10.3%), Kansas (-9.9%), New York (-7.7%), Wisconsin (-6.7%) and Vermont (-6.7%) (Table C-14)

Ray

[ElRay]

quote:Originally posted by goofydad

Well here is my opinion. I live in New Hampshire about 50-60 miles north of Boston. I am 50-60 minutes south of White and Cathedral ledge for climbing. 35 minutes from Winnie and a bunch fo other clean deep lakes. 20 minutes or less to the ocean, You can still get 10 acres and house for 200-250 if you look a little lots of old farms around ...

Funny thing, I've never really been to NH, only through it enroute to someplace else: Mass & Maine when in Upstate NY and from Providence airport going to VT. I have checked-out Cathedral ledge and did a tour of the Zimmerman House, but that's all I've done in NH.

quote:Very low crime rate, we were thinking of moving ourselves but didn't know where else we wanted to raise our 6 year old. Burlington Vermont is very appealing though.

If you don't mind me asking, why were you considering moving?

quote:Good luck in your choice and email me if there is any info or question on New Hampster I can help you with.

I may have to take you up on that, when we start traveling again.

I hate treading the line of offending people, but I've moved enough to experience those little things that initially seem so minor, but start to drive you up the wall after two - three years, and I do want to try to avoid any suprises. E.G., we were warned about "The Midwest Attitude" before we left SoCal, but it's something we really had to experience to understand. Very similar to SoCal's "no rain" is not equivalent to "always sunny", which I couldn't understand until I moved out there from Baltimore, MD. So here goes:

• Two of the most annoying (permantly whiney) people I've ever met were from NH and both had that really nasally accent. I did meet them in other states, so maybe they were evicted, or would have been annoying even with a Brooklyn accent, but the NH one just made things worse?
• We did perceive a bit of what we would have classified as "My ancestors came over on the Mayflour." attitude (almost snobbery) from some surprising sources. At the time, we were close to the MA border, do you encounter much of that up near Dartmouth, White or Catherdral, or was it mostly an aberration and just my bad luck*?

Ray

* I went to Joshua Tree over Thanksgiving, they got 4" - 6" of snow in the park -- First time in 11 years. The only time I've not been snowed in/out going through Minneapolis/St. Paul has been in the summer. Every time I've been to Vegas since the StratusTower has opened, the winds have been so bad they've closed the rides on top. This list goes on. At least my luck is good when it comes to avoiding injury.

[crokett]

quote:Originally posted by guycox

From what I hear they have even set up a separate town for the relocated Northerners -- CARY - [u]C</u>ontainment [u]A</u>rea for [u]R</u>elocated [u]Y</u>ankees..

Good one. I don't live in Cary though, I live west of Chapel Hill. There is a much better barbecue place about 5 minutes from me than anything you'd find in Cary.

[goofydad]

LOL Ray you can't offend me I'm a yankee. I have not realy encountered many like that. I live towards the south eastern part of the state, I grew up not far from the Vermont border. I will admit the old sentiment was if you wern't born here you aren't from here is not to prevalent in my area. But I would say only about 1 out of three people in the lower 1/3 of the state was born here anyway. Big influx of people trying to get away from the city life have moved in. Some of the older yankee's can still be a bit gruff until they know you then they will give you the shirt off their back to help you. Or maybe shgow up at your house at 1 am becase they see you bailing your cellor out by hand during huge storm, or notice that field is getting a little long and figure something must be wrong and come mow it for you and when you go to thank them they just wave you away with a "whats a neighbor for" If you look on a map look for Portsmouth New Hampshire and we are 10-15 minutes from there. Just about half way between Portland Me and Boston.

Don't worry about offending me, say it like it is if nothing else it will give me a chuckle.

Dave

[goofydad]

Sorry didn't anwser your question. Was looking very closly at Cape Coral Fl. Housing is very inexpensive. Schools are great student/teacher ratios are good. Can get a nice 3 bedroom house with in a mile or so of Gulf of Mexico for $150000. Looked at Burlington Vermont but the winters are long, Upside my wife has had employment opportunities at Ben and Jerry's a couple of times but didn't follow up because we we not ready to move yet. That is a perk if you like Ice Cream. I would consider Flag Staff if we could afford it. I live in Phoenix a couple of times and I like it there but no real seasons and too hot for me. Maybe North Caroline, Western Tennessee I like mountains and I love to fish.

Dave

Dave

[ElRay]

quote:Originally posted by goofydad

I will admit the old sentiment was if you wern't born here you aren't from here is not to prevalent in my area.

Finished Middle and High School in Up-Upstate NY (maybe 30 mins south of the border), So I'm used to the "You ain't a local unless you have four generations in the local cemetary." mindset (to distinguish it from an 'attitude').

quote:Some of the older yankee's can still be a bit gruff until they know you then they will give you the shirt off their back to help you. Or maybe show up at your house at 1 am becase they see you bailing your cellor out by hand during huge storm, or notice that field is getting a little long and figure something must be wrong and come mow it for you and when you go to thank them they just wave you away with a "whats a neighbor for"

That's a big part of what we're looking for. I remember one time our car died, and by the time we walked to the store on Route 68, they guy was already loading his toolbox and a can of gas in his truck. His initial comment was, "I'm surprised you made it here before I got loaded-up."

quote:I would consider Flagstaff ... I lived in Phoenix a couple of times and I like it there but no real seasons and too hot for me.

The lack of seasons would be a killer for us. That's one thing we absolutely love since we've escaped "The Valley". Fall is our favorite season. Again, all I know of AZ is passing through to go someplace else. Well, that's not entirely true. When I lived in Glendale, CA, I knew some folks that lived in Glendale, AZ (near Pheonix, IIRC) and we would meet in Joshua Tree and go climbing. I know Flagstaff is pretty much smack dab in the middle of the state, but that's it. Does it have seasons? Is it high enough altitude to be a bit cooler?

Ray

[aleuni]

Well miami is hot, humid, it has one season (summer with a hint of spring a few times a year). It's congested, flat, education is not all that great, your neigbor will be 5 ft away from you (if your lucky), airport is not far (but don't expect to get there in a hurry, we have dsl but it is usually down (because they are "Working" on it), it is flat (our mountains are land fills), one MAJOR lake (Okeechobee -that big spot on the map. it's our Main water supply and it's disgusting), no real mill anywhere,

but

We don't know what a real pure bred american is either. The reason we flock to see the president when he comes to visit is to see what a "gringo" really looks like. But even he knows that your better of with a hispanic. We have ever nation you could think of here. You are looked down upon if you don't marry out of you nationality (exageration -that's the cuban coming out). THe church I am in has over 28 countries represented. You want to speak english here call out of the county. You want ethnic food go to ANY resturant and you will find it. Even McDonalds will sell you a cuban sandwich. You want to be "accepted for who you are" here is the place.

You want a melting pot come here. you want anything else keep looking.

[billwmeyer]

I'm pretty happy right here in Southeast Kansas. We are just a couple of hours away from Kansas City, Springfield, MO. Tulsa, Ok, and Branson, Mo. Housing is very reasonable here, and we have good schools. We have a small state college in Pittsburg, Kansas that has an excellent reputation and a great football team (go Gorillas!). I went to high school with Dennis Franchione who coached the local college team (sorry Alabama fans) and we do have the Chiefs and Royals close by. Ok the Royals stink this year, but good teams come into town to embarrass them. The hilly ozarks a just a couple of hours away, which has spectacular fall foilage. The cost of living is low, but so are the wages. It kind of evens out. Grand lake is just about 1 1/2 hours away with great fishing, plus localy there are some strip pits that Harold Ensley fished in all the time. If you are a hunter, there are deer, quail, and turkey. Joplin, Mo is just 30 minutes away, and it has good shopping and restaurants.

Good luck on your search!
Bill