Joe Paterno dies?

[dbhost]

For those who wouldn't cut him some slack....If you had an otherwise illustrious career, and one of your work cohorts molested someone at work, you found out about it and contacted your supervisors, would you want someone to cut you some slack or make a scape goat of you?

I wouldn't hesitate to report it to the authorities. My supervisor doesn't have authority in legal matters.

[chopnhack]

Good info Lee, the point I was trying to bring across was that Paterno, who had been doing this for ~50 years probably wasnt versed in the law or its changes since he started working at the school. I am sure there are a ton of laws enacted specifically concerning schools since the 50's. It does bring to light that we must all be more aware of our legal requirements and liabilities while on the job.

[Knottscott]

I discussed this with my daughter just after the news broke last fall. She works with child protective services and what she told me - only showed me what I didn't know about the law.

ANYone who works in any educational institution or organization (and there are other situations also) is required by law to inform police or law enforcement when there is an allegation of sexual abuse with children or students. I am pretty sure that this is a federal law.

I may have some of the wording off, but the basic meaning is there.

If it was reported to him, then he was required under federal law to report this to Law Enforcement, not his superiors. This same law applies the fellow that told him.

That's interesting Hank...I'm fairly sure my employer trains folks to contact their supervisor over situations like this, but we're not a teaching institution.

[leehljp]

That's interesting Hank...I'm fairly sure my employer trains folks to contact their supervisor over situations like this, but we're not a teaching institution.

Yes, I asked this and the response was that companies that are not dealing with children within their care are not under that law. But specifically educational institutions and children/daycare and other organizations that deal with children are under this. I don't know how it deals with religious institutions (and I don't want to get into a religious discussion) but our organization has a very strong policy, training, awareness and guidelines on working with children and youth. Including when there is an accusation.

We do not allow a husband and wife team to baby sit or teach a children's group. Two adults must be present, but not a husband-wife team or two family members when supervising or teaching. This is to protect the adults from accusations that kids "can" do. We went though a half day training in learning what questions to ask and not ask. My daughter is good with this but I am not. Most questions I would think to ask are very "leading" and this leads to false accusations and builds.

Back to your statement, your company is right and does what it is supposed to do. But workers for educational institutions that deal with children and teens, they are under a different law.

[herb fellows]

Because of his fame and celebrity status, the media piled far too much of the blame for that unfortunate incident onto Coach Paterno shoulders. If he indeed did inform his superiors, as he claimed, who in turn then did nothing then those people is were the blame and media attention should have been all along. RIP jopa, you will be missed.

My sentiments exactly. Could he have followed up? Yes. Considering he told his superiors, who presumably would be the people to deal with this, I think he did as much as was 'required'.
Remember, he saw nothing himself, he was only relating a story from another individual.
You assume, perhaps wrongly, that they will investigate and deal with it appropriately. Sadly, they did not and there the fault lies.

[leehljp]

Remember, he saw nothing himself, he was only relating a story from another individual.

If it was reported to him, then he was required under federal law to report this to Law Enforcement, not his superiors. This same law applies the fellow that told him. This is a law that deals specifically with educational institutions and organizations and other institutions that deal with children and youth.

I will hazard a guess that the reason he was fired and the reason that the Chancellor was also fired was because of the legal ramifications of both of them having heard and then neither of them doing any thing. The fact that they "heard" and did nothing violated federal law and put the university in very a serious legal standing.

Regardless of how we or anyone feels that he was piled on, he violated federal laws. I don't say that in disrespect to him but in the reality that most all of us may be unaware of federal laws that are intended to protect our kids and youth. Now if we could do something about the other institutions (of which I am a part of) that allow this to happen.

[All Thumbs]

When the light switch doesn't work, you call an electrician.

When the drain is plugged, you call the plumber.

When the house is on fire, you call the fire department.

And when kids are being molested by one of your coaches, you call the cops.

[Cochese]

Yes, I asked this and the response was that companies that are not dealing with children within their care are not under that law. But specifically educational institutions and children/daycare and other organizations that deal with children are under this.

If it was reported to him, then he was required under federal law to report this to Law Enforcement, not his superiors. This same law applies the fellow that told him. This is a law that deals specifically with educational institutions and organizations and other institutions that deal with children and youth.

You'll forgive me if those two seem a bit contradictory as it applies to this situation. Indeed I cannot find anything that indicates the federal government was even investigating Paterno et al for violations of Title 43, 13031. I can only find indications that PSU was being investigated for violations of the Clery Act, which is disclosure of any crime.

I found this which indicates to me that this situation falls into the cracks of what the federal law states and falls to the state to act upon. http://www.ashcraftandgerel.com/pers...o-authorities/

And, under Pennsylvania state law, Paterno did what was required under the law, which was why he was never indicted.

Not saying he was blameless here, and not saying that your daughter is wrong, but those are the facts as they appear to me. Clearly he could, and should have done more, and him not understanding male rape isn't an excuse. However the man did do a lot of good in this world too, and I hope that the entire picture gets taken into account now that we're talking about him in the past tense.

[LCHIEN]

All legal questions aside, does it not strike you as immoral to allow a known child molester who is also a key part of your team to keep on working on your staff for 20 years, to have turned a blind eye to it?

And for whoever suggested that it unfair to punish Paterno by firing him immediately instead of waiting until the season was done, that surely smacks of the same line of thinking that the "Game of Football" is more important than protecting children.

[woodturner]

What he did was bad, but nowhere near what some want to tar him for.

To the contrary, it's far worse. To condone and "look the other way" while the abuse continued is unconscionable.

[woodturner]

the point I was trying to bring across was that Paterno, who had been doing this for ~50 years probably wasnt versed in the law or its changes since he started working at the school.

To the contrary, EVERY faculty member and employee at PSU must complete annual training on these issues, like every other university in the US, and this has been the practice for at least the 20 years I have been in academia. He knew what was right and didn't do it - as he acknowledge in an interview.

Reminds me of the whole Woody Hayes debacle. I find it deeply disturbing that success in a game is deemed to compensate for moral and ethical crimes or child abuse. (Woody Hayes was an OSU football coach who abused students by hitting them for years. He finally did it at a game, on camera, and was removed from the position - but his supporters still got a street renaimed after him).

[woodturner]

And, under Pennsylvania state law, Paterno did what was required under the law, which was why he was never indicted.

He is (was) under investigation and a criminal charges were expected. He was not indicted because he died - he almost certaily would have been indicted if he had lived long enough for the investigation to be completed and the grand jury to complete their work.

[woodturner]

And for whoever suggested that it unfair to punish Paterno by firing him immediately instead of waiting until the season was done, that surely smacks of the same line of thinking that the "Game of Football" is more important than protecting children.

For the record, he was not fired, but rather relieved of his coaching responsibilities. He retained his position as a tenured faculty at PSU and his income and benefits were not affected.

[Cochese]

He is (was) under investigation and a criminal charges were expected. He was not indicted because he died - he almost certaily would have been indicted if he had lived long enough for the investigation to be completed and the grand jury to complete their work.

Link? This is the absolute first I've heard of this.

[tommyt654]

I guess when all the dust finally settles it boils down to this, He did in fact report it to his superiors,Now I'm quite sure that he had a lot more on his plate and pressing matters to attend to as the head coach of a major college football team that was playing quite well and trying to continue doing so. The coaching skills needed by a college are not something like a little league or high school football team by any means and because of that fact alone he may have simply made the assumption that he had done what was necessary and by doing so assumed it was passed to those in authority to handle the matter. That being said he had a team to run, practices, obligatory functions such as press meets, meeting with other faculty/staff functions,backers,etc. and keeping a lot of folks happy and still trying to have a home life as well. I personally think he may have simply been too preoccupied with other matters and let things go where he thought they would be taken care of appropriately. Did he have a legal obligation? After reading Hanks comment prolly yes,Did he know that, no one will ever know, but his passing is something that I see as a loss to society. He himself was not accused of molesting, others on his staff that he apparently did not know were in fact doing this terrible thing and had apparently been getting away with it for yrs are truly all that can be blamed for this. I think he deserves credit for his services to the community and society in general as a whole and I will obligingly grant him that. Either way he has gone to meet his maker and he will deal with what society as a whole failed to recognize was going on.Just my 2 cents on the matter