A not wood project I was forced into...

[dbhost]

Okay so you guys may know my other hobby is Automotive, 4x4s in particular. Well over the last 2 weeks, the performance of my '04 F150 5.4L has gone from slightly rough, to stalling at every stop light. But no code was thrown...

Now if it were throwing a code, I would expect it to be MAF, or Throttle Body related, and since nothing else made sense, well, apart came the air box, out came the MAF sensor and although it looked clean, I hosed it down with a liberal dosage of CRC MAF Sensor cleaner, and the throttle body was covered in a slight hint of amber gum, and the butterfly wouldn't operate smoothly. So out came the can of Berryman B12 Chemtool... Again a rather liberal dosing of this product per MFG instructions. Reassemble the entire thing. Inspect the K&N to find a respectable cake on the filter media. Nothing that would restrict air flow, just enough to help it work. Double check to make sure everything is buttoned up, and all my tools are out from under the hood, and then crank it up...

Did I mention I had a throttle body that had been hosed down with B12 Chemtool?

Okay so it took some cranking, and more than a little sputtering and smoking, but once it settled down, well... it runs like a brand new truck again...

Not bad for 8 years old and 88K miles huh?

Wish my wood skills were good enough to make interior trim for this thing... I would LOVE real walnut burl trim in here...

[radhak]

I am going watch this thread with interest - I understood very little of that (heck, none of it!), but 'sounds' interesting.

Maybe I'll learn enough jargon just to boggle some minds in the next cocktail party...

[dbhost]

LOL...

I thought it might be of interest here as many woodworkers are also serious DIY types...

Simply put, modern vehicles no longer have a carburetor, but instead have fuel injection systems, this procedure I had to go through is part of a typical tune up, however, on my truck the symptoms crept in about 11K miles short of the MFG recommended maintenance cycle... Mind you, I always thought 100K tune ups were a bit loopy...

[LinuxRandal]

Fords are known for having an idle speed sensor, that goes bad (normally higher idle) and it doesn't produce a code. Just a FYI for future use.

[Cochese]

I am going watch this thread with interest - I understood very little of that (heck, none of it!), but 'sounds' interesting.

Maybe I'll learn enough jargon just to boggle some minds in the next cocktail party...

Truck supposed to go 'vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr'. Truck started going 'gugita-gugita', then no go nuthin' 'tall.

Sprayed stuff usually reserved for 'hey, hold my beer and watch this!' into the sucky part of the engine and truck go 'vrrrrrrr' again.

[cork58]

Likely it was the K&N filter. I've seen it more than a few times. What happens is as the filter gets dirty and the treatment on the filter is sucked out and contaminates the MAF wire. It won't be visible to the naked eye but with a good cleaning will usually be a fix. You should consider a Motorvac fuel system cleaning as well. It will dissolve the carbon on the back side of the intake valves as well as the fuel injectors and pistons. Ford, Chevrolet, Subaru and and a few others recommend it every 30K. I do mine every 50k though because I use Chevron fuel as much as possible. The same detergent that is used in the Motorvac is what is in the Chevron fuel. In closing I always recommend to K&N users is to have a spare ready to put in when there is even a slight amount of cake on it.

Just my take.

[dbhost]

Likely it was the K&N filter. I've seen it more than a few times. What happens is as the filter gets dirty and the treatment on the filter is sucked out and contaminates the MAF wire. It won't be visible to the naked eye but with a good cleaning will usually be a fix. You should consider a Motorvac fuel system cleaning as well. It will dissolve the carbon on the back side of the intake valves as well as the fuel injectors and pistons. Ford, Chevrolet, Subaru and and a few others recommend it every 30K. I do mine every 50k though because I use Chevron fuel as much as possible. The same detergent that is used in the Motorvac is what is in the Chevron fuel. In closing I always recommend to K&N users is to have a spare ready to put in when there is even a slight amount of cake on it.

Just my take.

I've been using Seafoam for a while now, but the results aren't what I was hoping for... Probably go back to using Techron when I can find it... Chevron isn't super common around here...

[dbhost]

Truck supposed to go 'vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr'. Truck started going 'gugita-gugita', then no go nuthin' 'tall.

Sprayed stuff usually reserved for 'hey, hold my beer and watch this!' into the sucky part of the engine and truck go 'vrrrrrrr' again.

Okay, now I literally LOL'ed on that one. Thanks. I needed that laugh!

[dbhost]

Fords are known for having an idle speed sensor, that goes bad (normally higher idle) and it doesn't produce a code. Just a FYI for future use.

Since prior to this I only had carburetor equipped engines... do tell. Does this issue impact the 5.4L 3V engine? I know the old 5.0 H.O. had that problem...

FWIW, I kind of figure it was oil from the K&N causing it... Going to look into a good flowing dry filter. Any suggestions? I don't want a CAI as I have a pretty strict inspection here. I am running the Gott's mod (3" PVC stub replacing the snorkel from the fender to the flex boot in the intake) opening it up, and acting more or less like a CAI without the noise, or emissions hassles. (adhesion promoter and flat black paint go a LONG way to throwing inspectors off your trail!).

We have until October before our last big bill is paid off beside the mortgage. After that, I am gonna save up for a Rancho 4" kit, and some gears / lockers for this thing... Gonna go get me some trees that have been hiding for far too long!

[LinuxRandal]

I've seen it on multiple Ford motors, from my 2.3, to a customers 4.0, etc. That sensor is not linked into the CEL system.

[Richard in Smithville]

I had a throttle body issue in my 2005 Escape. The throttle body would stick when the temperature would drop. It would only happen when it got really cold but eventually got to where it would stick as the thermometer drops just below freezing. I took it apart and gave everything a good cleaning and it now works fine again.

[badbert]

Wow now you guys are talking my language! I am a Ford Factory Trained and Certified Electronic Engine Control Specialist. There is a miniscule air gap between the throttle plate and it's housing, this can easily be clogged with oil and build-up. This usually comes from Blow-by. Compression leaking past the rings, pressurizing the crankcase, more than the PCV valve can handle. Cleaning it will cure the problem, but can make it worse in the future. The throttle plate is coated, to help prevent build-up. Too harsh a chemical can cause the coating to come off and the unburned coating can become deposited onto the HEGO sensors, affecting there readings. A soft bristle brush with a mild soapy water solution is the alternative. Also Steam cleaning the valves pistons and the HEGO sensors, can be performed by spraying a fine mist of water into the throttle body while keeping the RPMs around 1500 to 2000 rpms. DO NOT SPRAY AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT! Either way, make sure you check and replace the PCV valve. And check for blow-by by removing your oil cap while the engine is running, you should not have any smoke coming out. If you do, have your mechanic perform a cylinder leak-down test.

Hope this helps!

[dbhost]

Wow now you guys are talking my language! I am a Ford Factory Trained and Certified Electronic Engine Control Specialist. There is a miniscule air gap between the throttle plate and it's housing, this can easily be clogged with oil and build-up. This usually comes from Blow-by. Compression leaking past the rings, pressurizing the crankcase, more than the PCV valve can handle. Cleaning it will cure the problem, but can make it worse in the future. The throttle plate is coated, to help prevent build-up. Too harsh a chemical can cause the coating to come off and the unburned coating can become deposited onto the HEGO sensors, affecting there readings. A soft bristle brush with a mild soapy water solution is the alternative. Also Steam cleaning the valves pistons and the HEGO sensors, can be performed by spraying a fine mist of water into the throttle body while keeping the RPMs around 1500 to 2000 rpms. DO NOT SPRAY AN EXCESSIVE AMOUNT! Either way, make sure you check and replace the PCV valve. And check for blow-by by removing your oil cap while the engine is running, you should not have any smoke coming out. If you do, have your mechanic perform a cylinder leak-down test.

Hope this helps!

No problem... Yeah I checked the PCV, it's fine, no blowby... I wouldn't expect it at the mileage on the truck (89K), well, okay I would be disappointed if it was there... As best I can tell the issue goes back to the K&N oiled filter. However I have had them on everything I have drive since, well longer than I want to admit to... I guess I need to start looking for a good dry element filter instead of an oiled element...

I will admit to being somewhat out of touch with auto tech these days... I was trained back when cars had carbs and distributors... The new fuel / ignition systems are just wild... The concept that a factory stock V8 pickup truck could produce 300 HP and be considered the low output model just was unheard of heck even 10 years ago... The '92-93 Chevrolet C10 454-SS was the Billy Bad A** of its day, and it produced 230 HP!

[badbert]

Wait until electromagnetic valves become the norm! No camshaft, chains or lifters. Back in the day we would run solid lifter cams in our race cars, we could increase the valve lash to weaken the cam, and on friday nights we would tighten them back up for drag racing. Electronic valves can be adjusted real time, on the fly!

[Dal300]

Many years ago I had a truck that was part of Detroit Diesel's entry into the 4 stroke diesel engine world.
This engine was a first gen series 60, 12.7L but it had no pushrods, lifters, rockers or anything like should be on the top of a head. Instead it had a series of solenoids, 4 per cylinder to move the valves. For the short time I had it, about 8 months, it was a great engine, but they took it away from me and installed a DDEC I 60 series instead. What a piece of crap it turned out to be.
However, they have gotten a lot better in the last 30 years or so.

One thing they do harp on though is NOT TO USE A K&N filter for diesel engines.
The reasoning as far as I can tell is that a fresh K&N lets more crud through which scours the piston and cylinder, as it builds up dirt on the oil impregnation, the filtration becomes a lot better but the air flow becomes a lot less.
Now, I may be wrong, and this may be for only Turbo charged engines, but if I want to keep the best filtration on a naturally aspirated diesel I'll use an oil bath filter. (If anyone remembers what those are).

Wait until electromagnetic valves become the norm! No camshaft, chains or lifters. Back in the day we would run solid lifter cams in our race cars, we could increase the valve lash to weaken the cam, and on friday nights we would tighten them back up for drag racing. Electronic valves can be adjusted real time, on the fly!