An Eight Year Old Boy And An UZI

[cabinetman]

A very tragic story. What was supposed to be a fun event proved fatal for a boy that IMO, should never have been allowed to fire an automatic weapon.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=6121915&page=1

This event is a few years old, what is current though is who is being charged criminally with involuntary manslaughter.

A little background info. The gun club where this event was held was a co sponsor with the local police chief. The police chief was a licensed certified firearms instructor. The police chief had a sideline business that he promoted on his own website for firearms and advertised this event with a flier advertising that anyone of any age can fire any gun, and it is legal.

Since the child was only eight years old, the father had to sign for the boy. Each participant would be a lone shooter at the line with a "qualified instructor" While the boy was shooting, the father was videotaping his boy. When the boy started to fire, the gun recoiled, and shot the boy in the head. The father dropped the camera and came to his aid. The father was head of emergency medicine at a local hospital, but was limited in what could be done. The boy died.

What's current now is a trial charging the gun club, and the police chief with involuntary manslaughter. The father wasn't charged, as the local DA felt that he had suffered enough, and the liability was on the promoters and instructors.

IMO, the father should have been charged. It seems reasonable to me that any straight thinking father would not expose his son to that kind of risk.

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[schloff]

That was a horribly tragic story. And I agree, a child that age should never be in sole control of an auto weapon.

I can't imagine the grief the family has suffered.

[Toolhound]

This was a very tragic story, here is an update. The police chief was acquitted on all counts after a trial last January. http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/windham...27s-uzi-death- A few days after the acquittal of the chief, the prosecutor issued nolles of the charges against the 2 machine gun license holders that brought the guns to the event.

Charles and Suzanne Bizilj, who got divorced last July, filed a lawsuit alleging negligence and wrongful death against the Westfield Sportsman's Club, Fleury, Spano and Giuffre. It was settled for about $700,000.

Last year, the Sportsman's Club settled criminal allegations by agreeing to pay a $1,000 fine and donate $10,000 to children's charities. http://www.courant.com/news/connecti...0,464486.story

[LCHIEN]

one thing that wasn't pointed out here, the person who was assisting the child in shooting was not really a qualified instructor himself, but a 15-y.o. kid helping out who was not a licensed Firearm instructor.

THe gun was on full autofire and the boy held his finger on the trigger as the gun muzzle rotated upwards with each shot until it was twisted around and pointed at his head when it fired the fatal shot. In retrospect perhaps it was lucky no one else was shot.

pretty old story, happened in 2008.

[dbhost]

It is plenty obvious that nobody used anything even close to resembling common sense in this case.

[cabinetman]

pretty old story, happened in 2008.

Something like discussing an old thread that presents diverse points of view. Having used automatic weapons, and as a father, I would not allow my 8 year old to fire one. I fail to see how the father wasn't held accountable.

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[Black wallnut]

Something like discussing an old thread that presents diverse points of view. Having used automatic weapons, and as a father, I would not allow my 8 year old to fire one. I fail to see how the father wasn't held accountable.

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I agree! Having never fired any full auto. I am shocked that anyone would allow a young child to fire a full auto capable arm with any more than two cartridges in the magazine.

[LCHIEN]

... I fail to see how the father wasn't held accountable.

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I'd say he lost his son, will feel guilty for the rest of his life, and his marriage was ruined; might be punishment enough for a moment of stupidity. What else would you have him suffer?

[cabinetman]

I'd say he lost his son, will feel guilty for the rest of his life, and his marriage was ruined; might be punishment enough for a moment of stupidity. What else would you have him suffer?

Suffer? It was negligent behavior. Being charged would be a message to parents to take responsibility, along with whatever suffering. JMO.

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[LCHIEN]

Suffer? It was negligent behavior. Being charged would be a message to parents to take responsibility, along with whatever suffering. JMO.

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i don't think a monetary fine, and time in prison could be much more of a message to a parent to watch for their children than the loss of a loved one, guilt, and wrecked marriage, to be honest. A prison's no place for an otherwise lawabiding, grieving parent who should be at home taking care of his grieving wife and children.

Plus, I'm an advocate of never charging parents for the death of a child.
If the child is too much burden for the parent, its also a burden for the rest of society, a parent should have the right of mercifully ending the life of a hoplessly ill and suffering child, or a child so much a sociopath as to be a danger to society. At the other end of the scale, a parent who carelessly lets their child die, or perhaps grievously injures the child due to their idiotic beliefs, or physological problems, deserves to have his gene line ended, as Darwin would have put it.

OK, I'm only half serious... but think about it...

[radhak]

I do think there is some excuse for the father, as the last para in the report says - "Charles Bizilj was not charged because he was a layman and based his decision to allow his sons to fire the gun on information from others who should have known it was too dangerous, prosecutors have said."

So he might have asked, 'what is this gun, is it okay for my son to use it?', and probably gotten the answer "sure, no problem!".

If I had been there, I might have asked and assumed the same (ie, the people running the show knew what they were talking about). Of course, I'd never take a child to such a show. And this incident only serves to teach other parents that.

[cabinetman]

i don't think a monetary fine, and time in prison could be much more of a message to a parent to watch for their children than the loss of a loved one, guilt, and wrecked marriage, to be honest. A prison's no place for an otherwise lawabiding, grieving parent who should be at home taking care of his grieving wife and children.

Plus, I'm an advocate of never charging parents for the death of a child.
If the child is too much burden for the parent, its also a burden for the rest of society, a parent should have the right of mercifully ending the life of a hoplessly ill and suffering child, or a child so much a sociopath as to be a danger to society. At the other end of the scale, a parent who carelessly lets their child die, or perhaps grievously injures the child due to their idiotic beliefs, or physological problems, deserves to have his gene line ended, as Darwin would have put it.

OK, I'm only half serious... but think about it...

Half serious? Which half? Criminal culpability should be a determination of a jury. "Suffered enough" doesn't seem it would fly as a defense. I can't imagine that it would ever become a precedent.

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[BobSch]

"The father was head of emergency medicine at a local hospital" Remind me never to get sick in that town. There were so many wrong-headed decisions and actions involved in that tragedy, it would be hard to list them all. Maybe it's something in the water in that part of Connecticut?

[jackellis]

I do think there is some excuse for the father, as the last para in the report says - "Charles Bizilj was not charged because he was a layman and based his decision to allow his sons to fire the gun on information from others who should have known it was too dangerous, prosecutors have said."

One of the first Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs) every pilot learns about is "the pilot-in-command is solely responsible for the safe conduct of a flight". It means if a controller runs me into a mountain while I'm unable to see out the window, I'm still responsible for maintaining situational awareness. I need to know where the terrain is, even if I can't see it.

I think the same principle holds true with respect to a parent's responsibility for a minor child. As much as I feel for the family, it was the father's responsibility to ensure his son's safety and to make the call on firing a dangerous weapon. The father failed to do so. A contributing factor in this case was poor judgment on the part of the organizers of the event.

[vaking]

I am not sure if father should or should not have been charged for his son's death or the argument that he "suffered enough" is an excuse sufficient to get him off the hook. But when this father later on turns around and starts suing others for the death of his son - this is going too far. May be there is some fault in the accident on the side of police chief and the club but they had been charged in the criminal case already. Now father filing civil case against them as if he had been the victim here is totally unacceptable. I would say that father suing others for something that was his fault to a high degree is a proof that he had not suffered enough and should have been charged originally.
I sort of agree with Loring that when parent is so irresponsible he deserves his gene wiped but I see no reason why he should be rewarded for being irresponsible with $700K settlement.