Computer geek parts question...

[dbhost]

My fellow BT3Central members and computer geeks... I have a question for you...

I am looking to buy a NIB AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Socket 754. I can find LOTS of them used / refurb, but I want NIB if at all possible. I have an old Biostar iDEQ N1 currently fitted with a socket 754 Sempron CPU and want to upgrade this box to 64 bit, 2GB RAM.

Do any of you know of a supplier that would still have such a processor? I don't care if it is retail or OEM. Just so long as it is a new CPU...

If not available that way, does buying through Amazon offer any protection? I See a bunch of "refurbished" CPUs out there, and I am just paranoid I am going to end up with a dead chip...

Come to think of it, I REALLY wish Biostar still made these boxes but for modern chips... I REALLY like the small form factor, and how quiet it is. I don't need a huge case to house a stack of disks with 2TB SATA disks on the market...

[LCHIEN]

i really doubt there's much danger in buying a used CPU chip... They very rarely fail, there's really no way to "refurbish" a CPU chip, there's no serviceable/replaceable/removable parts parts. Since they rarely go bad, there's probably not that many floating around though, unless someone upgraded to a faster chip. Or has an extra in which case it'd be new and unused. If they upgraded, chances are good that the chip they took out is OK and if they guarantee it's not DOA, then if it works at first, it'll probably keep on working.

[dbhost]

Okay, so after I upgrade... Anyone wanna buy a Socket 754 Sempron 3000+?

Simply put, I need a chip that supports virtualization, and the Sempron doesn't cut it...

[pelligrini]

I looked at Compgeeks and PCsurplus they don't have anything in your flavor.

I agree with Loring, buying used shouldn't be a problem. If you could find a NIB chip you'd probably have to pay a premium price. Most anything bought with at least a Non-DOA warranty should be good.

[woodturner]

i really doubt there's much danger in buying a used CPU chip

There is a growing problem with counterfeit chips - the counterfeits are getting very good visually - so they usually are not detected until they reach the manufacturer or end-user.



As far as where to find one, try the refurb dealers - at least that way you would have some recourse if there is a problem.

[alpha]

Try Amazon:

http://tinyurl.com/4b629hr

New - $32.12 Free Shipping

Bob

[Gray Guy]

This may help you. Seems to be new OEM.

http://www.techexcess.net/ProductInf...0AEP5AP&affid=

[LCHIEN]

There is a growing problem with counterfeit chips - the counterfeits are getting very good visually - so they usually are not detected until they reach the manufacturer or end-user.



As far as where to find one, try the refurb dealers - at least that way you would have some recourse if there is a problem.

There is a problem with counterfeit chips. Usually however these are on the wholesale market rather than the retail market.

With CPUs counterfeiting is seldom a totally counterfeit chip because to make a CPU chip that even comes close to working costs millions if not billions. THe masks are very complex and hard to copy and it's not something you would make from scratch. Rather the problem is buying cheaper versions say rated for 1.5 GHz and selling it as a 2 GHz chip by scraping off the markings and remarking the chip. These chips work OK at the faster speed most of the time but may fail under extreme conditions that aren't normally tested in high production - i.e. taking advantage of safety margins built into a good design. Since such a speed difference might command a 2X price on a $50 chip so there's $50 profit for just printing a new marking on top. in modest quantities. The target for these crooks are companies making large quantities of computers looking to make up shortages caused by long delivery times by buying on the spot market - allegedly surplus from other manufacturers sold by brokers rather than legitamite distributors. So a crook can slip re-labeled parts into a broker's stream easily since the brokers are not so careful about where they get parts.

I would deem a low probability of getting a counterfeit-marked part used, although I suppose a user having troubles with reliable operation (because of such shenanigans) or even having trouble overclocking the part might remove and replace such a part with another and them sell the troubled part.

Non-cpu parts that are widely maunfactured in equivalent-form and function and using lower technology are more subject to real counterfeiting. Maybe memories and other low-level digital parts.

[woodturner]

There is a problem with counterfeit chips. Usually however these are on the wholesale market rather than the retail market.

It's becoming a big issue in the retail market, because retailers don't test the chips.

They aren't "counterfeit" in the sense of trying to make a working part. Many of the counterfeits contain no die at all - just an empty package made to cosmetically look like the real chip. If they do contain die, they are a completely different part - speculation is that they are "trash picking" failed parts that have the same package and relabelling them. High value parts like CPUs are the primary targets of the counterfeiters.

In addition to my teaching role, I consult with some of the major consumer electronics manufacturers. The rate of counterfeits is approaching 5%. In other words, for every million parts they buy, they get something like 50,000 fakes. It doesn't seem to matter where they buy them - every vendor and manufacturer seems to have this issue. Sometimes the parts are switched in the distribution chain, some makers seems to be shipping some fakes, some distributors seem to have more issues.

The reason this has gotten so prevalent is that chips have gotten so complex - so the distributors and supply chain can't test them. The manufacturer tests them, and they usually aren't tested again until the product manufacturer puts them in a board.

It has become a very prevalent and difficult problem.

[dbhost]

Try Amazon:

http://tinyurl.com/4b629hr

New - $32.12 Free Shipping

Bob

Nice price, but that is socket 939 not 754... Won't fit...

There are a few 3200s for anywhere between $40 and $80.00, if I were willing to drop down to a 3000 there are a ton of those... Might just have to do that.

[phrog]

If not available that way, does buying through Amazon offer any protection? I See a bunch of "refurbished" CPUs out there, and I am just paranoid I am going to end up with a dead chip...

I know this doesn't answer your question directly, but I have had nothing but good experiences with Amazon. When I ordered a CPU from them, the inside CPU box was opened and the CPU was missing upon receipt. I phoned them and they sent me another which I received in two days. They only asked that I send the opened box back. They provided an outer return box and label so that I was out of no money. The service was great.

Edit: I also ordered a motherboard, hard drive, memory, and a card reader from them

[Kristofor]

It's becoming a big issue in the retail market, because retailers don't test the chips.

<snip>

In addition to my teaching role, I consult with some of the major consumer electronics manufacturers. The rate of counterfeits is approaching 5%. In other words, for every million parts they buy, they get something like 50,000 fakes. It doesn't seem to matter where they buy them - every vendor and manufacturer seems to have this issue. Sometimes the parts are switched in the distribution chain, some makers seems to be shipping some fakes, some distributors seem to have more issues.

<snip>

If they're buying a million of any given part I sure hope they're not buying retail.

But that said, I can recall at least 3 stories in the last year where fakes did make it through the supply chain to large retailers/etailers.


db, I took a look though my junk bins and for that generation of AMD I could only find a 939 CPU, and even that would be dubious as it's rolling around in the chip graveyard drawer with no physical or ESD protection to speak of.

You have lots of options for cooler, lower power, and smaller footprint rigs these days, but not for the $40ish pricepoint you'd have with that CPU upgrade...

[dbhost]

I talked with a coworker of mine that has recently upgraded his PC, and I might just have a CPU coming my way free! I have plenty of RAM on order for it (2GB). It started acting funny after LOML knocked it off of the desk it was on while cleaning. I ran Memtest86 on it yesterday and found 37K + errors on the one installed module. A 2GB Kingston kit (2x1GB) in DDR400 was around $50.00

I really ought to buy a new PC, but this thing is so small and unobtrusive I don't want to mess with it...

It is kind of scary seeing how far computer tech has gone in the last 5 years... 64 bits, more cores than the SGI clusters I used to work on had, and memory out the wazoo, all to browse the web, process email, and edit a few photos and videos for most folks...

[dbhost]

Update...

I had an issue with the RAM they sent, (right capacity, wrong type) so I got with Amazon's support folks, and it appears they kicked the wrong SKU # out the door to me... Oops... They are sending a new kit, and a return mailing label / envelope for the one they messed up on. (The modules they sent are MUCH faster than my mainboard can address...).

I ALMOST feel bad about maxing this little thing out, but I need to set up a virtual network, and need the hardware to be able to do it...

For those interested, once it gets put back together the specs will be...

Biostar iDeq N1 barebones SFF PC, NVidia Nforce 4 chipset, Geforce 6100 on board graphics, sound, 10/100 ethernet.
AMD Athlon 64 3000+. It's more than fast enough, and most importantly will support Linux KVM Virtualization.
2GB Kingston DDR400 RAM
Samsung DVD+/-R/RW (PATA)
Western Digital Caviar 2TB SATA HDD.
Teac 7 in 1 floppy / memory card reader, Internal USB2.
Operating System = Scientific Linux 6 x86_64, with 4 SL 6 guest VMs, 1 CentOS 5, 1 Mandriva 2010.2, 1 Ubuntu 10.10, and 1 Windows 7 Home.

Once I get this fully set up, and get to the serious work of test prep, I will probably drop off the forums for a bit and dump myself nose first as it were into this project. I am aiming to get through my test before June 15th.

[pelligrini]

If the RAM fits your slots, and your BIOS doesn't have a fit with it, faster speed RAM should work. I used to use faster RAM on builds for overclocking if I could afford it. RAM is normally backwards compatable, as long as the pinouts work.