Ello Guvner! Going to England for business.

[atgcpaul]

I'm going to Manchester, England for 10 days the Sunday after Thanksgiving
on business.

Anyone been there? I've heard it's the "gritty city" and from one of the Brits
I occassionally interact with who went to university there, he said, "Oh, I'm
sorry for you. Do try to check out York."

I've vacationed in London before and didn't feel it was much different than
NYC except it was cleaner, the people were nicer, the Tube didn't smell like
pee and it was twice as expensive.

So what should I expect from the people in Manchester? I'm fairly laid back
(T-shirts and jeans at work) but I've been told the British workplace is rather
conservative so I'm going to wear nice shirt and jeans. We are going to be
working around instrumentation so I need to be comfortable.

I also wanted to bring my counterpart a little present in appreciation of the
work they've done for us (of course, they're getting paid to do it, but
nonetheless). I've never met the guy but I know he has twin boys. I wanted
to bring him something that was uniquely American. I know that's vague but
any ideas would help.

Thanks,
Paul

[cabinetman]

A trip to England...that's cool. You should PM Ray, and maybe look him up while there.

.

[radhak]

I'd call and check what exactly they wear at work. Jeans does not sound 'conservative'. I wouldn't be surprised if they wore suits. But of course you don't have to be exactly like them !

A baseball kit might be good for a man with twin boys. I'm sure they'd not go out and purchase that there! But then you risk alienating the lady in the house and may not get the best crumpets with tea .

(Btw, what are crumpets?)

[twistsol]

I would guess at a minimum slacks a shirt and tie. Definitely call ahead and find out what proper attire is. I've been to the UK a number of times and I've never seen jeans in an office. With the exception of Australia, the nicest people I've ever worked with are there.

I've been to Manchester once about 15 years ago. Flew in, just about got hit by a truck while stepping off the curb because I looked the wrong way, then we drove up to Preston where I made a right turn in front of oncoming traffic and just about killed the entire finance team. I just about get killed every time I go to the UK because traffic just isn't where it is "supposed to be."

[JR]

I can't help on the Manchester thing, and, never having worked in a lab, I'm no good on the dress code.

As to gifts, try US wines which might be difficult to find in the UK. Or NFL stuff.

BTW - slightly amusing story. I was riding my bike while getting new tires on the truck on Sunday. I stopped in at the Crown and Anchor for breakfast, which had a placard outside advertising "Every NFL game, every Sunday". Well, there was a good crowd inside watching Premier League on every screen! As soon as the NFL came on everyone cleared out.

JR

[radhak]

which had a placard outside advertising "Every NFL game, every Sunday". Well, there was a good crowd inside watching Premier League on every screen! As soon as the NFL came on everyone cleared out.

JR

Surprising - such a discerning crowd in California... !

[Kristofor]

Obviously it may be different from one business to another but I have a couple pictures of some co-workers & customers who are in three different labs in the UK with several of our instruments. It looks like one of the customers may be wearing black jeans but the rest (~20ish folks across 3 sites) seem to be wearing slacks with a few others in scrubs. These are hospital/reference lab type locations, perhaps an academic setting may be different.

My personal rule of thumb is when traveling to other locations that are part of the company I work for, is to dress like I do at my office (jeans and a dress shirt more often than not). I will adjust that if I need to give a presentation to a site-wide audience, meet with executive management, or the like.

However, if I was going to a customer's site I'd inquire ahead of time and conform with their expectations.

[milanuk]

As to gifts, try US wines which might be difficult to find in the UK.

When we were over there last summer, the local grocery stores (started with an 'S', basically their equivalent of Safeway) had a fair number of California wines and such. Whether they were *good* wines or not... well I haven't met too many wines I actually like, so good luck to ya

Over all I liked the place, but driving down two lane streets in residential areas with the parking spots lined out *in the traffic lanes* and having to dodge both oncoming traffic and parked cars was insane. The breakfast foods were definitely interesting... blood sausage and those dang tomatoes! Being able to get milk that made our 'whole' look like low-fat was sweet, though

[jackellis]

I lived and worked in London for 18 months. Most of the folks in the financial district had adopted American-style business casual dress by the time I left. This is what I'd recommend. Jeans are probably a bit too casual.

My wife is the wine buyer in the family and generally recommends that her cousins not pick up what's available in the local grocery stores - it's not horrible, but it's also not very good. The better wines in England come from Spain, Australia, and South Africa. You should try some of those while you're in England since they're hard to find here.

If any of your American acquaintances tell you horror stories about English food, ignore them. My wife and I have spent a lot of time in the UK in the last 20 years and we've never had a bad meal. In fact, when I was living over there I finally had to put my foot down about dining out because we were spending a bit too much money trying out nice restaurants.

[Richard in Smithville]

Make sure you take along a box of donuts. When ever my cousin and his wife visit Canada, the first place they stop( even before they get to where they are staying) is a Tim Hortons!

[gjat]

My wife was born in England and we've been there visiting family.
Absolutely no on the jeans. They do not wear them as often as Americans do and are deemed not suitable for any kind of 'professional' wear. They rarely even wear shirts with patterns.
A Sainsburys would have all the various wines including American wines. But wine is such a personal choice and the variety is outstanding in Europe.
When family visits here, they love food such as buffalo wings, mexican food, fried chicken, etc. Kinda hard to bring a Beef O Brady's to the UK.

The baseball stuff could be a good idea for the kids.

What we often do is wait until we see them and inevitabley the topic comes up about what we like in each other's countries. They are BIG in choclates and candies, leaning mostly to chocolates. Go to a Sainsbury or WhiteRose and you'll see. My wife's cousin has a thing about moon pies and we sent them over later as a thank you.

[atgcpaul]

I guess I need to clarify about the workplace setting. I'm going there for a
factory acceptance test for a piece of equipment we're buying--$3/4 mill piece
of equipment.

I'm sure there will be sales people and managers around but I will be on the
factory floor for several days putting this thing through its paces, etc. That's
why I thought it would be appropriate for me to be able to wear jeans.

They are not my customers; I am theirs. I don't figure I need to impress
anyone by how I look, but I do want to properly represent my organization.
I'll bring the jeans just in case, but will wear slacks and nice shirt the first
day or two and gauge what everyone out on the floor is wearing.

Good idea about the baseball stuff. I'll ask our sales rep some recon questions
so I'm not buying toy bats and balls for "kids" that are in their teens. Wine
was a good thought but like someone else said, Europe already has a great
selection and besides, my counterpart is originally from France so he probably
knows a thing or two about wine. Maybe as a gag, I could buy some "2 buck
chuck" and we could have a taste test.

Paul

[leehljp]

I guess I need to clarify about the workplace setting.

They are not my customers; I am theirs. I don't figure I need to impress
anyone by how I look, but I do want to properly represent my organization.
I'll bring the jeans just in case, but will wear slacks and nice shirt the first
day or two and gauge what everyone out on the floor is wearing.

Paul

In general, Americans tend to think practical and what's on the inside that counts - i.e. it's the performance, not the looks. But outside of most US cultural situations, it is the "looks" that sets the tone for acceptance. And beware that most cultures will say "What ever makes you comfortable" but in reality will judge you silently for taking them at their word!" As you said, look at what they wear and follow suit, or jeans!

If I wear a suit to government offices, businesses, or to the airport, I get a lot more respect, and usually gain the advantage of "gray" (or "grey" ) areas. If I am in jeans, even nice new jeans, I do not get these. Being the customer does have its advantages but it does affect their attitude. In other cultures, it is not always about the sale, it is about the attitude and relationship developed in the sale. A show of respect for other cultures greatly enhances this.

A close personal friend and QC engineer for Texas Instruments use to come to Japan for QC inspections and discussions with a local but international manufacturer. The first couple of times over, he had difficulties. He said that they (Japanese) are great in business negotiations but in the States he has no problems. But over here, he said he has trouble with negotiations with the same fellows.

I told him the location changed. "You are in Japan now!"
He asked "what does that mean?"
I said "The game changes when in a different land."
He said, But "I am the customer."
I replied, "Outside of the US, there is a different way of doing things. Respect for their culture on their soil is paramount and more important than the sale itself." I helped him to adjust his "negotiations" and the next day, he said "It worked! It went smooth today." And afterwards too.

Two years ago, a similar thing happened when two men from an east coast company came to Nagoya with some problems with tech issues in some satellites. One was an online friend on another forum. We met, had lunch and dinner and out for the day. Over lunch, I gave some instructions on culture and how to "dialog" on Japan's soil. I also mention that it gains more respect to overdress than to underdress. I got a note later on how helpful that little bit of information helped.

Americans do tend to think of the customer as having rights, but other cultures resent that attitude as they take it as disrespectful of them the manufacturer. Most cultures think of it as a "relationship/partnership."

A coat and tie may not gain you any advantage but it won't lose you any. Jeans won't gain you any but can help lose the advantage. Bill Gates and MS lost a lot of respect and forehand advantages a few years ago when he showed up in jeans and a sports coat to a luncheon with some government officials in China. Outside of the USA, the world is different!

[atgcpaul]

I decided to "suit up" and wear dress shirt and slacks to the testing every day.
I don't know that it would have mattered but manager types here do wear
a tie but not the full suit. The guys who do the assembly work are wearing
polos and jeans but there is definitely a hierarchy here.

Mancunians (people from Manchester) are very well dressed. What a difference
from the States.

BTW, the English do not deal well with snow and ice. We got maybe an inch
or two of snow and the country is practically shut down.

[jackellis]

I'm glad to hear your trip went well. A former co-worker of mine mentioned snow and carnage in the same sentence. Enough said!