Little down today

[Shep]

Just found out that once again I've been passed over for a promotion with my company. That makes three in a row. I know I should be glad for having the position I have, but I'm getting tired of interviewing.

I keep getting the feeling that the people in charge care more about who can give a great interview as opposed to those who have done a great job with the company. I guess I'm just a little humble about myself when it comes to interviewing. You would think that accomplishments would go farther than words.

[tkarlmann]

Playing the Coporate Game?

Been there. There is a difference between folks who know how to do actual work with real skills and those who know how to BS to the boss.

You might consider doing contracting or consulting type work -- if your field has that. It's what I do, because I don't care for all the corporate-ladder-climbing either.

If you know how to do things in your field, you have value, period. You need to find some structure that appreciates what you actually do. Sometimes change is good.

[cabinetman]

You have your own solution. For as simple and unappreciated a method it may seem, work on your interviews.
.

[pacwind3]

Hey I hear ya, I am really not the best interview. I feel like: "just gimmie the job and I'll prove myself, I won't let ya down". That doesn't seem to work. You aren't alone, but unfortunately, I don't have any good advise.

[herb fellows]

Too often, the criteria for promotion is secondary to the people who are interviewing for the job.
If you're doing a great job where you are, and you would be hard to replace, they have no incentive to choose you. As far as filling positions, promoting you just puts them back to square one.
Look at the successful candidate; how difficult was it for his/her job to be filled as opposed to yours? You may have made yourself a victim by becoming 'indispensable'.
I've been a victim of that and I still don't know the way around it.
Sad to say, but sometimes it just doesn't pay to 'be the best that you can be'.
If this profile doesn't fit your situation, and you have no idea why you were not selected, make an appointment with the selecting officials. Tell them that you felt you were a good candidate and ask them what you could do to improve your interview the next time, what additional things could I have done or said that would have made me the successful candidate. It will never hurt you to let them know you thought you were the best candidate and that you are dissappointed in not being selected. Analyze the answer and see if it fits. If it doesn't, and you feel you're being lied to, it might be time to start floating your name out there in your industry.

[twistsol]

As a consultant, I have to interview for new work constantly. It takes practice and it is, unfortunately, just as much about salesmanship as it is about actual performance. It's especially hard if you were brought up not to brag or boast about your accomplishments.

The trouble with relying on your accomplishments is that you assume the interviewer is familiar with your work history more than glancing at a resume or reading a few performance reviews. Depending on who you work for, I've had team leads/supervisors take credit for my work so your accomplishments may not even be yours on the record.

In the end, you need to be able to spell out to the interviewer what your accomplishments were, and how they benefitted the company. If you can quantify and support the benefits, e.g. saved $40K a year or increased sales 10%, you have a much more powerful argument.

Keep at it, giving up is the only certain way achieve failure.

[Shep]

I think that what upsets me most about my interview were some of the questions. I was applying for a corporate account position with a lot of high level outside sales. In my current position I manage a team and a very large insurance account in Ohio. I figured the interview would be more about my sales experience. Turned out they asked me a bunch of hypotheticals about being a manager. Most of the questions were so hypothetical that I would never imagine having experience with. Plus, with the new position I would not have anyone to manage other than myself.

One question they asked me was : to describe a time when I had a conflict with a superior manager and how I resolved it. I've been fortunate to get along with all my managers and have never had a problem. I'm sure I could have made up a fictitous conflit, but I would rather tell the truth and say what I just said.

I know some of the other applicants would say whatever they needed to get the "correct" question right, but I don't want to be like that. If someone asks me a question I'll give them my honest answer. Not some PC BS. I stay out of office politics because it's not worth my time.

As far as going into consulting, I can't. I work for an industry leading company, but it's an inside position. No consultants exist anywhere because you have to be on the inside to get anything done.

I've got an interview lined up next week with a national company outside of where I work. If I get it, I'll have to move to Cincinnati, sell a house, buy a house, etc. If the money is ok, I'll probably do it, but I'm not looking forward to moving and the like.

[Bruce Cohen]

Justin,

I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but I haven't had a "real" job since 9/11.

I was a creative director in an ad agency making a mid-six figure salary. The combination of the dot com meltdown and 9/11 just about ruined most of all the ad agency's in NYC.

Had to take a $12.00 per hr job at Home Depot to make ends meet.

Somehow, you always get by. At least you are employed.

Brucce

[Shep]

When it rains in pours.

Just got an email from my property manager who oversees the duplex that I own. If you all remember, I hired a property manager beacuse I had had it with tenants. He informed me that he is now in the eviction process for both units. I guess he's not doing a better job than I did.

[leehljp]

Reading your interview characteristics and problems made me think of myself. I do not see the need for self promotion and also prefer to let my work speak for itself, and it usually does. It is difficult for me to use so called PR language because in the end it is mostly bull and leads to wrong perceptions. But the one with the best bull usually wins. However, there are some characteristics that are not bull or "interview language" that are looked for during interviews.

I also get along with all of my supervisors (at least in the past 15 years). I do have my limits and stood my ground on some moral issues before that. It got me into trouble, but the "troubles" left.

One hint on interviews: Sometimes, it is not always a matter of the words spoken, but of exuding a quiet confidence along with the knowledge and experience. That quiet confidence is a door opener.

Passion, vision and focus are also qualities that transcend words and language.

I am in the ministry. One thing I learned a long time ago - at the point of delivery, how a minister says something determines whether people want to listen to them or not. "How" something is said in certain situations is every bit as important as what is said. Confidence, passion, vision and focus must be projected for the hearer to accept it. (This is coming from a fellow who was the number 1 most introverted student in 3000 - according to the MMPI personality test that was required upon entrance. )

There was one fellow that I was in school with that was a bore. (I hope he is not on this forum under an alias. ) I worked with him on expressing his feelings with his words. I knew how he felt about some subjects, but his voice was always monotone. It took a little experience but soon his confidence in his work came out in his talks.

People don't have to bull to show their confidence in their work and ability, but they do need to project the quiet confidence that they have in their work. If they can also allow their passion and vision for their work to be expressed / heard during the talk, that too will be noted by the interviewer! This is not self promotion or bull.

[JSUPreston]

Shep, I'm sending you a PM.

[LCHIEN]

not sure what your situation is, are you
1. seeking a promotion in your same department, or
2. seeking an advertised position in another department in your company

Judging from your "interviews" I assume its the latter where you are having to interview with other supervisors who are not familiar with your work.

When seeking other jobs within the same company these might apply:
One, do you have your present bosses wholehearted approval that you are seeking this new job? A word of praise from them to the hiring manager would help greatly, a negative word would sink your ship.

A good manager with the company's interests in mind would want his good employees promoted from within. A selfish manager would want the employee not to be promoted so he can continue to use him - you don't want to work for this guy.

So are you getting good reviews now? And more importantly , are you promotable? That is, you have a barrier to promotion if leaving your current job will leave the department in a lurch. You have to make sure that all your work processes are documented (forms, computer processes, files) so that anyone can pick up, and that you have trained subordinates who can take over when you are gone. Dependence on one person who has secret recipes and procedures make that person secure in his job, but also makes him un-promotable, either on purpose or subconcisously to the manager.

Once you have your present manager's backing and are promotable, then you have to work on your presentation skills. If not, then your only recourse is to leave the company and re-start elsewhere.

[Shep]

not sure what your situation is, are you
1. seeking a promotion in your same department, or
2. seeking an advertised position in another department in your company

Judging from your "interviews" I assume its the latter where you are having to interview with other supervisors who are not familiar with your work.

When seeking other jobs within the same company these might apply:
One, do you have your present bosses wholehearted approval that you are seeking this new job? A word of praise from them to the hiring manager would help greatly, a negative word would sink your ship.

A good manager with the company's interests in mind would want his good employees promoted from within. A selfish manager would want the employee not to be promoted so he can continue to use him - you don't want to work for this guy.

So are you getting good reviews now? And more importantly , are you promotable? That is, you have a barrier to promotion if leaving your current job will leave the department in a lurch. You have to make sure that all your work processes are documented (forms, computer processes, files) so that anyone can pick up, and that you have trained subordinates who can take over when you are gone. Dependence on one person who has secret recipes and procedures make that person secure in his job, but also makes him un-promotable, either on purpose or subconcisously to the manager.

Once you have your present manager's backing and are promotable, then you have to work on your presentation skills. If not, then your only recourse is to leave the company and re-start elsewhere.

To answer your question I interviewed for a similar position but different department; however, the managers I've interviewed with have known me for the past 6 years. They all know that I've done a great job wherever I've been. My current manager thinks I'm awesome. My latest review was the highest I've ever heard of anyone else ever getting. They told me post interview that it really came down to my answers to their questions.

[Crash2510]

Sounds to me like you have made yourself irreplaceable in your position. If you make yourself irreplaceable that makes you unpromoteable. Be careful it happens in business all the time.

[mleichtle]

Justin,

I don't know if this will make you feel any better, but I haven't had a "real" job since 9/11.

I was a creative director in an ad agency making a mid-six figure salary. The combination of the dot com meltdown and 9/11 just about ruined most of all the ad agency's in NYC.

Had to take a $12.00 per hr job at Home Depot to make ends meet.

Somehow, you always get by. At least you are employed.

Brucce

Sorry Bruce, but I don't understand your attitude. How do you go from creative director to cart collector. Your only creative if your paid to be? If I understand you corectly, I make less than 10 Percent of your salery, My wife makes the statictical 76 cents on the dollar I get, neither of us have gotten a raise of any kind in 5 years, while cost of living has been going up rapidly. I've been flat out bustin my hinder for 20 years now with little left over, and nothing to show for, and my body is starting to show it. If my body stops working the way its supposed to in the future cause of wear n tear from the last 20 years, than what I'm getting paid now isn't worth it, and getting less just isn't an option. Now I'm looking at changing carreers a second time since 2005. I thought I'd be alot further than I am now when I started. Those words "At least I got a job" more like "My job ain't worth killin myself".