surge protectors for home entertainment centers....

[footprintsinconc]

i just bought a lcd tv and was told that i should be considering a surge protector........i dont know much at all about electricity, so i thought i'd turn to you guys and ask what should i be considering if i even need this at all.

he was rambling about stage 1 and stage 2....there is just one outlet with 2 sockets on the wall behind the tv. i am going to be plugging into it:

• desktop computer
• printer
• router
• cable modem
• lcd tv
• dvd player
• and home theather sound system.

here is a link to one that the guy at the store suggested

also, there is an array of hdmi cables out there. there are some that that say you dont need the fancy ones, so what kind of money would you sugest that i should spend on these hdmi cables?

thanks!

[LCHIEN]

you should have some sort of surge protector for your expensive or critical electronics.

It should also protect any outside lines coming in - like antenna and/or cable and phone lines. - they'll have input and output connectors for coax and RJ11 (phone modular jacks) connectors.

I wouldn't say any one is superior, they all work the same. You can find them at Lowes or HD as well as Best Buy. I think Best Buy marks them up like HDMI cables because when they sell you a TV they then steer you to a surge outlet. Try the box hardware stores. More Joules is better.

I wouldn't buy from BUY.COM - I had a bad experience with them.

[Prax]

A few years ago when the LOML bought me a Samsung DLP and home theater, the guy at BB talked us into a "power conditioner" I was a little skeptical about it, but knew I needed the surge protection. It was a little steep on price (~$250 if I remember), but the results were worth the price. It has numerous switched and unswitched recp's on it and the conditioning feature really helps take out the noise from the power lines. It cleared up the sound of my stereo, theater and plain TV and really improved the video signal as well. Just my $.02. I don't regret the buy. But I am sure you can find one much cheaper then I did.

[LarryG]

I bought most of my home theater rig from Crutchfield, and on one of the orders I tossed this Panamax surge protector into my cart. It is rated at 1125 joules and carries a $50,000 warranty on connected equipment.

I don't know whether its $65 price tag means it really protects my gear any better than an outwardly-similar-looking $20 unit from one of the big box stores. But with some $4000 worth of electronics plugged into it, it does give me more peace of mind.

EDIT: On the HDMI cable question ... for that, and any other cables or wire you need, point your browser to www.monoprice.com ... good stuff, and you'll save more than enough to cover the shipping. Do NOT fall for the snake oil crapola surrounding mega-expensive cables. Ten bucks or so (plus shipping) will get you what you need.

[cwithboat]

We had surge protection installed in our main breaker box thus covering the whole house. Now our computers, our home theater and stereo, my shop, and our kitchen appliances (Stove/oven has electronic controls) are protected.

[JimD]

I have heard that the surge surpressors at the breaker box are better. What I use, however, is one of the strips from Lowes or Home Depot. We have had lightening strikes close enough to the house to burn up the cable tv cable and had no damage to the electronics.

I use Parts Express for things like HDMI cables. I would not buy them with the TV unless you like wasting money. Price is a function of length but $10-$20 seems like it would get you something functional if I remember what I saw last time I looked.

I also associate wasted money with anything that has "Monster Cable" on it. My speaker wire is just large zip cord from the hardware store.

Jim

[pelligrini]

I've ended up putting most of my equipment on APC battery backups. We'd get small power fluxuations at the house (especially those 2 second brown outs). I don't have to reset clocks on them anymore. I wasn't shooting for long uptimes, but enough to deal with those small outages.

[sailor55330]

As a former AV geek, I can offer this. Surge protection is something I wouldn't skimp on. The link that you provided is a decent basic HT surge protector and will probably work just fine. I personally use a monster 5500 (several years old), but it features voltage monitoring and will stand up to 2x the surge of a lightening strike. In addition, there is a lifetime guarantee for up to 100K if any equipment is damaged by a surge while plugged in. That's sound stupid, but when you figure my home AV system is worth about 10-13K, then maybe not.

Now, Line conditioners----unless you are running serious HT gear, They are probably not necessary. These are usually used in conjunction with super high end gear on dedicated circuits when you absolutely can't have any variance in voltage or when your gear has an incredible draw. If your system didn't cost at least $10k, I wouldn't spend the cash. I'd love to have one, but honestly, since I dont' have a dedicated Theater room, there are too many variables to make it worth the purchase.

Now, lastly a thought on "Monster" vs. Zip cord. Audio signals have resistance measured in Ohms. Not a secret. The more Ohms or resistance you have, the less power and signal get transferred from the source to the speakers. This translates into lower sound quality and volume and makes your amp work that much harder. The difference between zip cord and dedicated AV speaker wire (assuming good quality) is the number of strands of copper wire inside the casing. The more strands of wire, the more evenly the load is distributed and the less the resistance is. I don't remember the exact #'s, but a standard 14g zip cord has around 75-100 strands of wire in it. A good quality speaker wire has about 500-1000. It's pretty simple really, more strands=better sound. I can actually tell a difference on my system between good cable and cheap zip cord with just my ears. Probably not everyone can. If you are using a $299 HTIB (home theater in a box) the results will be less dramatic, but there will still be a difference.

Now, is there a difference between say Monster silver and Monster gold? Yes, there is. but you will need an oscilliscope to be able to tell.

I admit I am not as up-to-date as I once was, but I believe I remember reading some reviews by Home Theater Magazine around HDMI cables and the bottom line was they either pass a signal or they don't. Something to do with the nature of HD and digital signals and little or no resistance. I think the bottom line was spend for the good stuff if you have $10K projector, otherwise, use the cash on other parts of the system.

Closing thoughts:
Get a good surge protector, skip the line conditioner (unless you are George Lucas)
Use a high quality speaker wire. Zip cord really doesn't cut it for HT applications.
Don't get sucked into to buying the "super expert gold/platinum super cable". Get a good cable from a reputable manufacturer.

Take some time to play with the system and get a good set up DVD. They usually run about $30 and will help you to calibrate the system (audio and video). Video essentials used to be one of these. It will surprise you just how much the picture and sound experience can improve. The other cool tool is a Db meter from Radio Shack. The analog one will do just fine and is about $25 (I think). This will help you set sound levels equally across all speakers and channels.



Good luck and let me know if you have any questions---I've had a lot of years to play.

[cabinetman]

I've ended up putting most of my equipment on APC battery backups. We'd get small power fluxuations at the house (especially those 2 second brown outs). I don't have to reset clocks on them anymore. I wasn't shooting for long uptimes, but enough to deal with those small outages.

That's exactly what we did. The same type as on our computers.
.

[L. D. Jeffries]

Am a firm believer in surge protectors. In our part of the world we get a lot of power surges and lightening strikes (partially due to large iron ore deposits) so rather safe than sorry. Three years ago lost the electronics (very expensive to replace) on a pretty new gas range due to the above. Now every thing is surge protected, that is all electronic and expensive stuff.

[footprintsinconc]

....
Take some time to play with the system and get a good set up DVD. They usually run about $30 and will help you to calibrate the system (audio and video). Video essentials used to be one of these. It will surprise you just how much the picture and sound experience can improve. The other cool tool is a Db meter from Radio Shack. The analog one will do just fine and is about $25 (I think). This will help you set sound levels equally across all speakers and channels.



Good luck and let me know if you have any questions---I've had a lot of years to play.

thanks for detailed explanation. i dont have a home theater system yet. i had ordered the basic one, but was able to cancell my order today as i lost my job. however, the tv i bought i couldnt cancell, it just left the warehouse today. so that is the most expensive item that i will have plugged into it for now. i dont think i am ever going to spend anywhere near 10k on my audio/video setup.

if i am not getting a home theater system right now, do you think the 'video essential' is still recommended? i am complete new to lcd tv's.

thanks!

[JimD]

The explanation of Monster Cable looks like it came straight from the manufacturer. It is extremely simple to measure resistance. It takes an instrument that costs less than $10. I challenge anybody to show an electrical resistance difference between Monster cable and equivalent guage zip cord. Because there is none. The number of strands makes an inconsequential difference if it makes any at all. Nothing that can be measured or detected by ordinary means. Surface conduction is a useful discussion for high voltage transmission lines (and despite the well know fact that electricity tends to flow on the surface, high voltage transmission lines, as well as all the conductors in your house, are solid. If there was a significant resistance difference, ask yourself why nobody would do it in these applications where there are huge dollars involved). Surface conduction is not a significant factor at low voltage for speakers.

With respect to difference in sound quality, this has been proven to be a placebo effect. When you know you are listening with "Monster Cable Gold" your mind convinces itself that the sound is better. But if you were given a blind test, where you did not know which cord was used, you could not tell the difference. You would guess randomly and the results will show it. This has been done many times with the results published. You have to do a statistically significant number of tests but if you do, you will fail to find the Monster Gold cable.

I don't care if you want to waste your money buying into the manufacturers sales campaign - its your money - I just feel compelled to point out to others who may not realize what I just said. The only tests I believe on this subject are blind tests with human beings. Being able to show something on an ossicilscope at least provides some basis for their claims but it is not worth my money unless they can show a real human being can reliably hear the difference. And I've seen blind test results where they could not and none where they could.

Jim

[twistsol]

Surge Protectors, I use them and buy moderate quality and have never had a problem.

HDMI Cables. Quality matters to a certain extent but not much. Since HDMI is a digital signal, the data either arrives in tact or not. If the cable has issues you will see square blocks flash on the screen that didn't update from one frame to the next or you will get no signal at all. I bought mine through ABC Cables, $8.00 for a 1 meter cable.

[cgallery]

The problem w/ surge protectors purchased at typical consumer electronics stores is that they use MOVs (Metal Oxide Varisters), which wear out with each surge they encounter.

After a while they provide no protection, and many provide no indication that they are providing no protection. After months to a couple of years (depending on your power), they are simply acting as just an outlet strip.

Here is an interesting article:
http://www.nmsu.edu/safety/programs/..._unit_info.htm

I believe hole-house surge protectors (those installed in panels) are substantially more sophisticated and don't "wear out."

You can easily spend $50 for surge protectors at places like Best Buy. For $150 you can get a hole-house protector, add maybe $100 to get it installed by a licensed electrician. That would be much more sensible.

Just MHO.

[sailor55330]

Personally, If I had invested in a new LCD, then yes, I would get a calibration disk. Might as well get the most accurate performance you can. I'm not even sure what the best disk out there is right now. This is not to say that you will necessarily like the way the picture looks, but it will be "accurate". Then again, most stores crank every display adjustment to the max to make the TV look brighter to encourage purchase.


Jim,

Not to start a war or discussion, but I do disagree with you on the insignificance of cable quality. You mentioned that there was no discernable difference and that it might be more of a placebo effect. If that is the case, why can I put a DB meter in the room on a table and play the exact same passage of music without touching any controls and see a measurable difference in Sp between good cables and zip cord?

Also, For the record, I am not a big Monster fan and the information I typed didn't come from any website. It came from the textbooks from the classes I took back in college. I did reference Monster because I think it does provide an ok balance between performance, price, and availability.

I guess it's all up to the individual.