The Windows 7 Hustle

[radhak]

Is it just me, or did anybody else notice the huge, not-so-gentle nudge from all sorts of 'advisors' with the intent of hustling everybody and their uncle into purchasing Windows 7?

I know a ginormous industry is fueled by each operating system update by MS, but this time it seems to be obscenely obtrusive.

Try this : http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...8&pageNumber=2. Talk of hard-sell! Not only is he thrusting W7 on us, he also wants us to buy new hardware, specifically 64bit! (obviously I am speaking for the huge majority now on XP). How about if I wipe the C: drive of my current m/c and install W7 from scratch - he doesn't think of mentioning that!

And there are many more like that; I had to dig deeper to find one from the other side of the aisle : Why Bother?

[dbhost]

With Windows Vista, I went from 2 PCs running Windows XP, and 2 running Linux, to 1 PC running Windows XP and 3 running Linux.

If Microsoft drops support for XP, Windows will leave my computers all together. Windows 7 carries over the same compatiblity problems that Vista had with my older software. I am NOT upgrading things like Corel Draw again.

Give me a compelling reason to WANT to upgrade other than it's the newest and prettiest... And I will seriously consider it. Break compatibility with some of my favorite applications and hardware and I WILL walk away from your company.

Honestly, if Xara Xtreme on Linux were ready for prime time, I wouldn't have Windows, at all...

[radhak]

and that is scary : wonder which of my apps / peripherals will stop working...?

another scary thought : methinks my organization is going to face a humongous problem if it has to upgrade all of us to W7 : we are an XP org now, so it will mean clean installs for around 60,000 machines !!! ! ! !

[twistsol]

Like any other upgrade etc, complete the following.

Now that I have Windows 7 I can ...

This is why my mom used an Apple /// for 21 years until it died.

[phrog]

With Windows Vista, I went from 2 PCs running Windows XP, and 2 running Linux, to 1 PC running Windows XP and 3 running Linux.

If Microsoft drops support for XP, Windows will leave my computers all together. Windows 7 carries over the same compatiblity problems that Vista had with my older software. I am NOT upgrading things like Corel Draw again.

Give me a compelling reason to WANT to upgrade other than it's the newest and prettiest... And I will seriously consider it. Break compatibility with some of my favorite applications and hardware and I WILL walk away from your company.

Honestly, if Xara Xtreme on Linux were ready for prime time, I wouldn't have Windows, at all...

Right on! I've been thinking about changing to Linux because I'm not a big fan of MS. Do you have any trouble finding programs to run on Linux (such as WPs, etc)?
Richard

[LinuxRandal]

With Windows Vista, I went from 2 PCs running Windows XP, and 2 running Linux, to 1 PC running Windows XP and 3 running Linux.

If Microsoft drops support for XP, Windows will leave my computers all together. Windows 7 carries over the same compatiblity problems that Vista had with my older software. I am NOT upgrading things like Corel Draw again.

Give me a compelling reason to WANT to upgrade other than it's the newest and prettiest... And I will seriously consider it. Break compatibility with some of my favorite applications and hardware and I WILL walk away from your company.

Honestly, if Xara Xtreme on Linux were ready for prime time, I wouldn't have Windows, at all...

Right on! I've been thinking about changing to Linux because I'm not a big fan of MS. Do you have any trouble finding programs to run on Linux (such as WPs, etc)?
Richard

The only reason I have Windows, is my last two pc's came with it. One was too cheap to buy (couldn't build it for what I paid) and the other is my notebook/netbook hybrid (setup as a dual boot). I have one game I like, but how long that game stays around (considering I play it once about every four months), who knows.
I've been running Linux for sometime, and MOST software, is easy to find, however it isn't always as dumbed down as Windows software (part of that is terminology). There are other programs, Cutlist Plus for example, that have no Linux counterpart. I haven't ever taken the time to learn wine and try it under that, and it isn't a supported app, under the commercial Crossover by Codeweavers.
Richard, a better question would be; "I use Word, Nero, etc., what are some Linux counterparts? " (list your specific software).
Some are available on both Windows AND Linux, like Openoffice, VLC as examples.

[tseavoy]

I have been reading the windows hype lately and yesterday looked into the cost of a new computer with windows 7 (3.5X2).
After thinking about it, I realized that my old Acer computer running win98 does me fine. I don't play games other than solitaire and freecell, I have Adobe Photoshop, Office 7, image readers, etc and that's all I need. I get irritated when third party programs drop the older windows versions (like Turbotax -- I found another that worked just as well). As far as MS support, forget it. I don't need it for win98 which is much faster and more stable than my wife's laptop running XP -- and did I mention less susceptible to spyware.
And I don't need 2GB of RAM.

Tom on Marrowstone

[phrog]

Quote of LinuxRandal:

"Richard, a better question would be; "I use Word, Nero, etc., what are some Linux counterparts? " (list your specific software).
Some are available on both Windows AND Linux, like Openoffice, VLC as examples. "


I'm particularly interested in a word processor similar to Word. I often use Photoshop and a music conversion program called Roxio RecordNow to convert old LPs to CD and MP3 files. Are there any Linux programs that are similar? Also, what do you use as a browser when you go to the internet - I currently use FireFox. Most of the other programs on my Windows computer are games and other junk I can live without. Thanks.
Richard

[LinuxRandal]

Firefox runs on Linux, as well as Opera, Konquerer (built into KDE, like Windows Explorer in Windows), Iceweasel, and I am sure a few more browsers.
I am not sure of the Word counterpart, because I haven't seen clippy in any of the non Windows ones, LOL. I tend to use Openoffice and its word processor. The reason I tend to install the whole thing is people seem to need to send PPS files and it opens them. I should really just install those two pieces on my primary machine, and the full blown on another, backup machine.

Photoshop has a given competitor, in Gimp. It has been quite a few years since I looked at that (never used Photoshop), as my brother was getting into that for a bit. When he did, I believe Windows was a new port of it. It should have matured by now, so I would play with it on Windows first, to answer your questions and get over the learning curve.

I don't know about the audio program. There had been (and I am sure are) several programs that can manipulate music (scratch removal, etc). The only thing I have used for sometime is Grip. I use it to rip my cd's to either mp3's (licensed codec) or Ogg (free codec, but not all portable players will play it even though it is free). I just leave my favorites on a pc, which I can play either over the network, to my stereo, or to a radio transmitter (really need a better one of those).

EDIT: didn't complete word thought after joke. Abiword, Kword, I think Gnome has one (never really liked Gnome), and I am sure there are more, not counting editors.

[phrog]

Firefox runs on Linux, as well as Opera, Konquerer (built into KDE, like Windows Explorer in Windows), Iceweasel, and I am sure a few more browsers.
I am not sure of the Word counterpart, because I haven't seen clippy in any of the non Windows ones, LOL. I tend to use Openoffice and its word processor. The reason I tend to install the whole thing is people seem to need to send PPS files and it opens them. I should really just install those two pieces on my primary machine, and the full blown on another, backup machine.

Photoshop has a given competitor, in Gimp. It has been quite a few years since I looked at that (never used Photoshop), as my brother was getting into that for a bit. When he did, I believe Windows was a new port of it. It should have matured by now, so I would play with it on Windows first, to answer your questions and get over the learning curve.

I don't know about the audio program. There had been (and I am sure are) several programs that can manipulate music (scratch removal, etc). The only thing I have used for sometime is Grip. I use it to rip my cd's to either mp3's (licensed codec) or Ogg (free codec, but not all portable players will play it even though it is free). I just leave my favorites on a pc, which I can play either over the network, to my stereo, or to a radio transmitter (really need a better one of those).

EDIT: didn't complete word thought after joke. Abiword, Kword, I think Gnome has one (never really liked Gnome), and I am sure there are more, not counting editors.

LinuxRandal,
Thanks for all the info. I've been thinking about building an experimental computer and putting Linux on it. Will definitely take your recommendations to this new computer after I get it built. I didn't realize there was so much software available for Linux or I would have done so long ago. Again, thanks. Also, an apology - I didn't mean to hijack this thread.
Richard

[crokett]

With Windows Vista, I went from 2 PCs running Windows XP, and 2 running Linux, to 1 PC running Windows XP and 3 running Linux.

If Microsoft drops support for XP, Windows will leave my computers all together. Windows 7 carries over the same compatiblity problems that Vista had with my older software. I am NOT upgrading things like Corel Draw again.

First, can you run your current version of Corel Draw under Linux? If not, then why would you move off the MS platform? Wouldn't that require investment in software to replace Corel Draw?

Second, Win7 actually has better compatibility with older apps than Vista. I have a few that didn't run under Vista that do under Win7. There is also a compatibility mode setting in Win7 for apps that don't run otherwise that it can pretend it is XP or other versions of Windows.

Lastly, Linux isn't all that it is cracked up to be either. I made a serious attempt several months ago to run Linux exclusively at work but ran into some issues. I can't run it at home, no printer drivers available for my printer. While Linux in some ways requires less to maintain, there is a much greater investment of time in setup and startup, at least for me.

[Wood_workur]

If you know your way around a computer linux is the way to go. The tricky part is getting drivers to play nice. In the meantime, Radhak, I'd suggest Norton ghost.

[LinuxRandal]

First, can you run your current version of Corel Draw under Linux? If not, then why would you move off the MS platform? Wouldn't that require investment in software to replace Corel Draw?

Second, Win7 actually has better compatibility with older apps than Vista. I have a few that didn't run under Vista that do under Win7. There is also a compatibility mode setting in Win7 for apps that don't run otherwise that it can pretend it is XP or other versions of Windows.

Lastly, Linux isn't all that it is cracked up to be either. I made a serious attempt several months ago to run Linux exclusively at work but ran into some issues. I can't run it at home, no printer drivers available for my printer. While Linux in some ways requires less to maintain, there is a much greater investment of time in setup and startup, at least for me.

Sorry for butting in, but I think you make some valid points, and some that aren't completely thought out.
All software, requires and investment. Not all requires money, but all requires time. My uncle, was a surveyor that used GPS early on, and I remember the old days when his pc was a Tandy 1000. He was asked when/why he upgraded, his standard answer was given to him by a student. "So you can get new equipment (goes for that or as taxes), and do things slower" (aka, you have to relearn as things get moved, etc).
I still believe Wine and Codeweavers are relatively, in their infancy. The compatibility mode, in my mind, is more due to the competition from Mac (either dual boot (boot camp?) or emulator software). Lack of compatibility has driven the continuation of XP (2010 in Netbooks), the switch to Mac and or other os's (such as Linux). If I can't do it with Vista, why not try differently entirely attitude.

Lastly, I agree with your last statement. People shouldn't be fooled into believing ANY os, is all it is supposed to be (Windows, Mac, Linux, BSD, etc). Work issues can be non commonly used feature compatibility, it can be data hostage issues (proprietary format verses open standards), non common software, like in house accounting programs, (Google Sterling Ball) to the point one may have to hire it to be made if they can't find it. (he still thanks Microsoft for getting him started, then forcing him to switch)
Your printer, is probably a winprinter (no real brains, it uses the driver written for that os as them). These are things to be aware of and to search either before, or as one tries Linux/BSD/etc. on another pc. (can be older, new, whatever). An extreme workaround I knew about, was someone who only used the printer for word processing, started using Openoffice, saving the doc, sending it to their kids game machine, where they opened it, and printed from Windows (an imperfect world by far). They were still happy, after their last virus bout.
When my dad won an IBM award (EARLY pc days) and bought that first pc, if it weren't for the need of a new furnace and a/c, our XT would have had two displays (one color and one green screen) and two 10mb hard drives (one dos 1.0 and one Minux). I would be a LOT further along, if we had gone Minux. Wordperfect 1.0 was the main reason he went dos (kids schoolwork).

[tkarlmann]

The only reason I have Windows, is my last two pc's came with it. One was too cheap to buy (couldn't build it for what I paid) and the other is my notebook/netbook hybrid (setup as a dual boot). I have one game I like, but how long that game stays around (considering I play it once about every four months), who knows.
I've been running Linux for sometime, and MOST software, is easy to find, however it isn't always as dumbed down as Windows software (part of that is terminology). There are other programs, Cutlist Plus for example, that have no Linux counterpart. I haven't ever taken the time to learn wine and try it under that, and it isn't a supported app, under the commercial Crossover by Codeweavers.
Richard, a better question would be; "I use Word, Nero, etc., what are some Linux counterparts? " (list your specific software).
Some are available on both Windows AND Linux, like Openoffice, VLC as examples.

Seriously, w/o all the colorful wording ... I have MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite 3. Will these run under Linux?

[crokett]

Seriously, w/o all the colorful wording ... I have MS Office and Adobe Creative Suite 3. Will these run under Linux?

I have both. That is another reason I am not running Linux at home. The answer is no, at least not natively. You can try something like Wine. I couldn't get CS3 working in Wine. If you really want to move to Linux then either dual boot with Windows and Linux or install a Virtual Machine under Linux that has Windows running inside it. For MS Office, there is a replacement called Open Office. OO will save files to the MS Office format However, there are issues with moving between the two.


When you ask is Linux better than Windows, the answer depends on who you ask. Linux is technically superior to Windows, I won't dispute that. Once it is running, it stays running and doesn't have the virus problems, update issues, etc. OTH, if you ask my Dad, his answer is no. He is in semi-retirement as a programmer. He makes money writing apps for Windows systems. If you ask my wife, the answer is no. Installing and using Linux requires more computer knowledge and time than she has. Driver support for a lot of HW is still sketchy. I had issues with the wireless on my laptop earlier this year under Linux. Even wireless LEAP for work gave me fits, and that is pretty basic. If all you do is web/email, Linux is a great OS. My experience has always been that eventually I find that it doesn't do that 'one thing' that I need it to do and if I have to still have Windows, I will stick with Windows. I don't have the time any more to support two OSes.