It all started out so simply

[smorris]

LOML wants new kitchen cabinets, so we picked some designs and I was assembling drawings, doing layouts in Sketchup and making cutlists with Cabinet Cruncher to get started on a long project.

Then, can we add a pantry cabinet somewhere...maybe knock out this corner in the kitchen where a back wall of a closet in the hall eats some floor space. OooKkkk, we can do that. Back to sketchup and the graph paper to start working out the plan.

Now comes, "come out to the kitchen, I want to run an idea past you". I knew nothing good could come of this, but, what can you do. I could almost hear the voice at the cell door saying "It's time son".

Well...what if we move the sink over to this wall and take out the top half of the wall so we can see through. Put the stove over there, the fridge over there and while we're at it, can we take out the sliding glass wall door and put in a regular size glass panel door.

I don't think that is a load bearing wall, but will have to look into it. And the plumbing...and the electric...and framing the new door. I'd say my time is committed for the next 2 years if I can't talk my way out of this. It all seemed so simple when it was just making replacement cabinets.

Oh well, she certainly puts up with me and my tool/wood habit so I guess she deserves a kitchen she wants. I did make her aware that such a project would likely require me to buy some "special tools". To which I was told if I need it she's fine with that.

[pelligrini]

Yep, you just stepped way, way off into the deepend.

[smorris]

If that wall is load bearing then this variation is off the table, I'm not going there.

[vaking]

The important part - the moment you buy the first item specifically for this project - the design stage is completed and closed. Any modification to the plan after that is a revision and involves an extra charge. Make sure that LOYL understands that.

[Shep]

And they lived happily ever after...

That conversation sounds a lot like the one my wife and I had recently when we decided to redue our two upstair bathrooms. I just finished up the second bathroom this past weekend by laying and grouting the tile. Halfway through the project my wife slipt in the "What's taking so long?" Apparently the "free" labor was taking too long for her.

My advice, make sure you're explaining how long the project will last and how much $ it will cost.

Good luck.

[jackellis]

In the lingo of project management, this sounds like major scope creep.

My wife wanted new windows about five years ago. She said they'd save us money on heating, but I knew the savings would take 10 or 15 years to materialize, if at all. She also said they'd make the house quieter (true).

We replaced all but two windows - a bay window in our bedroom and a kitchen window that has countertop tiles against the frame. Had we replaced the kitchen window, it would have meant remodeling the entire kitchen - break one tile and you have to replace them all, might as well do new cabinets, let's finally push out the wall, on and on. I told her there was no way that window was going to be replaced and she agreed. I still call that one the $100k window.

[cabinetman]

You are going through this fire drill with someone you love. Try this planning with strangers, that love using the telephone and have trouble understanding the need for change orders. Actually, there are change orders for the change order...and so on. All I can say is enjoy the experience.
.

[Mr__Bill]

Ya know, new houses are cheap now......





Bill

[germdoc]

Ya know, new houses are cheap now......

Bill

All of the above are cheaper than a divorce. DAMHIKT.

Anyhoo, curious who you would ask if a wall is load-bearing? My ex was after me for years to take out a kitchen wall so that we would have an open area between the kitchen and dining room. I told her it was probably load-bearing and put her off until we sold the house. I never quite knew who could provide that critical bit of information.

[smorris]

All of the above are cheaper than a divorce. DAMHIKT.

Anyhoo, curious who you would ask if a wall is load-bearing?

Since we have trusses for the rafters it isn't likely to be load bearing, that's how they build here, the outer walls take the whole load. BUT, to be on the safe side I'll hire and engineer to come in for an hour after I open the soffit and get his opinion. That's a lot cheaper then making a mistake, and if it is he can tell me what headers and the configuration I need if i go forward with this. When I open that soffit in the kitchen it may well be that like another wall in the house I thought might be bearing, the rafters were not even resting on the wall, there was an 1/8" gap.

[TB Roye]

If there is sliding glass door in a load bearing wall it should not be that hard to install a regular or even set of French Doors. The opening already has a header so all you would have to is add the correct framing for the smaller door. Then you would have add drywall on the inside and matching siding on the outside. I remove the siding doors in our Bedroom and installed French Door with no problem. It is still a big project. Mine was one day and done.

Tom

[LCHIEN]

You are going through this fire drill with someone you love. Try this planning with strangers, that love using the telephone and have trouble understanding the need for change orders. Actually, there are change orders for the change order...and so on. All I can say is enjoy the experience.
.

see original contract and change orders below:

[Ed62]

I'd say my time is committed for the next 2 years if I can't talk my way out of this.

There is no doubt it is a load bearing wall. It can't possibly be done. Problem solved.

Ed

[herb fellows]

Simple load bearing test:

Knock it out; if the house falls down, it was.

I love the voice at the cell door line! The only thing missing is kindly old Father O'Brien, asking you to mend your ways!

[bruce hylton]

Leave everything alone and start her an outdoor kitchen with her floor plan and think about the grill, the charbroiler, fat fryer etc. that you can put out there and the envy of all your neighbors.