Woodworking Business

[Larry David]

I just wanted to get some feedback.

I really have come to enjoy building very sturdy, high quality, bookcases from solid wood. I buy the wood usually from HD or Lowes. Mostly oak and poplar. I don't go overboard on ultra fancy trim but they are stained and finished well. I am thinking about selling them. The bookcases won't be priced cheaply like at most discount furniture stores that sell particle board units that the customer must assemble himself with little metal pins and screws. I'm trying to find the type of customer that wants exceptionally sturdy, over engineered, attractive, real wood bookcases that will last for decades at a fair price.

I also want to possibly build bunk beds with the same high quality as the bookcases.

I am not going to get rich doing this, I realize that. I also realize that it could take a very long time to really make any money until I develop a customer base. I just want to do something I truly enjoy and turn it into a successful business at some point. I think if I stick to building one or two items with a few variations of each, I could them very well. And maybe people will buy them....

Any thoughts?

Thanks

[DUD]

It is a tough nut to crack, If You could buy raw material, plane, joint, assembly, You

would lower material cost a bunch over big box prices. Then when You say solid wood,

it would be at a lower cost to You, more labor, less material cost. An ebay store wold

be possibly easier. Let You get more answers now. My opinion, Bill

[Garasaki]

I've toyed with the idea of "could I make money doing this..." myself.

Lets just say I probably put like 70 hours into a recent project that would be marketable.

At my job now, I make over 30 bucks an hour. So for that recent project, I would have to charge over $2000 in labor to make the same amount I do now.

I just can't imagine being able to sell at that sort of pricepoint. I'd have to work A LOT more efficiently then I do now.

And would I continue to enjoy this if I had to work at a uncomfortably fast pace, just to put food on the table?

[RayintheUK]

I just wanted to get some feedback.

I really have come to enjoy building very sturdy, high quality, bookcases from solid wood. I buy the wood usually from HD or Lowes. Mostly oak and poplar.

If you have a proper lumber yard near enough to you, I'd head down there and stop buying from the DIY sheds. You'll get a better quality wood and maybe some useful help and advice thrown in.

I don't go overboard on ultra fancy trim but they are stained and finished well. I am thinking about selling them. The bookcases won't be priced cheaply like at most discount furniture stores that sell particle board units that the customer must assemble himself with little metal pins and screws. I'm trying to find the type of customer that wants exceptionally sturdy, over engineered, attractive, real wood bookcases that will last for decades at a fair price.

The advantage with suppository furniture (you put it up yourself!), is that it's easy to transport and to get - for example - upstairs, before assembling. Shipping costs are likely to be less with a kit than with a finished item, although if you intend to keep this endeavour local and deliver yourself, this is not worthy of consideration.

I also want to possibly build bunk beds with the same high quality as the bookcases.

Over here, we have several quality and safety standards to work to (which we conversationally lump together and refer to as "Kite Marks"). I expect you have similar codes for the construction, strength, load-bearing, stability (not tipping over), crush strength, etc., etc. With bookcases, side tables and the like, the standards will be lesser than those for bunk beds, I'd guess, but there may be a code that covers the finishes used.

Can you meet any required standards, because if one of your products breaks or - even worse - injures someone, even though it's not your "fault," there will surely be grief to contend with? Do you have Personal Liability Insurance schemes over there that might cover these eventualities? Would you need to get examples of you work approved (and therefore tested) before offering them for sale? I know what the situation is over here for one-off pieces, but if you're going to be producing several, even dis-similar products, that might need looking into also.

I am not going to get rich doing this, I realize that.

That's correct!

I also realize that it could take a very long time to really make any money until I develop a customer base. I just want to do something I truly enjoy and turn it into a successful business at some point. I think if I stick to building one or two items with a few variations of each, I could them very well. And maybe people will buy them....

In my experience, bookcases - especially sturdy, high-quality ones, are not "repeat order items," so your eventual success will depend mainly on word of mouth. You might make some savings by bulk purchases of raw materials, but - in the end - it's going to be a buyer's market. Your products will, by definition, be more expensive than flat-pack look-alikes, so try and emphasize this by using "bespoke" or "individually designed" somewhere in your description.

If you're friendly with your mail deliverer, show them an example - there's a good opportunity for a free salesperson. Exhibit at craft fairs and consider flyers - leave out the prices, but say something like "prices available on contacting ... " then you can justify prices better by explaining the work processes and materials involved.

Good luck, BTW!

Ray

[Ed62]

Two words....."Business Plan". You'll need one if you hope to succeed. Free help at http://www.score.org/explore_score.html .

Ed

[jackellis]

Don't expect to make much money at all, even if you can work faster, unless you produce something that's distinctive and you have access to wealthy clients.

We just ordered kitchen cabinets for a new home and last summer put new kitchen cabinets in a rental. The rental got cabinets with well built particleboard cases (no, it's not an oxymoron). The new place got plywood. Solid wood cabinets are beyond our budget. Solid wood is beyond most people's budgets.

I've toyed with the idea of building stuff for sale in my retirement years and decided as follows. If I ever end up building something for myself that someone else covets, I'll be happy to sell it for the larger of what I think it's worth to the buyer or what it's worth to me. But for the most part, this is a form of relaxation. I have enough stress already.

[pecker]

You might want to visit some of the Amish markets in Maryland. I've seen some pretty nice solid wood furniture there. If you can't meet or beat their prices, it might be kind of pointless to pursue.

[dbhost]

Just a thought.

You are going to be competing price, and quality wise with...

#1. The Amish craftsman. These guys have a well established customer base that are looking for what they have to offer.

#2. The Mexican artisan import. Not the factory stuff, but the Mexican version of Amish furniture. I see a lot of it here. VERY high quality work, at prices not much higher than discount retailers charge for particle board garbage.

Both of the above have well established client bases, and fit a certain style. You need to find your style. Most likely you can offer something the competition doesn't...

I have had friends ask if I thought about selling some of my pieces. (I nearly fell over laughing, I am nowhere near good enough yet.)

In all honesty, the cheap stuff is so bad, it needs to be replaced way too often.

Back in 2002, I bought a "Solid Oak" dining room set from a company called "Oak Crafters" at a going out of business sale. After it came home with me, I discovered that it was made in China, AND... by 2006, the legs on the chairs started coming unglued. (I have reglued several of them using Gorilla glue, they aren't going ANYWHERE now...). It will take several years for folks to realize the full value of quality, and with the economy in the toilet, it is going to be VERY hard to sell higher priced merchandise. You will need to press on the value of quality issue pretty hard to get anyone to listen to you. If your bookcase is $150.00 for example, and the Chinese particle board one is $30.00, you are going to have to justify why it is a better deal to spend an extra $120.00

[ragswl4]

I would think that producing fine furniture in a small one person shop with the idea of making a profit may be extemely difficult. The customer base for this type of product is probably pretty small and since its high quality meant to last a lifetime then most customers might only buy once. Could be hard to develop a true customer base.

I might suggest another alternative to furniture products. That would be either jewerly boxes, pens, bottle stoppers and other smalller items. These items take less time, less material and can still be very high end and garner a respectable price at a lower production cost. The price can also be more attractive to a wider group of customers who may purchase more than one time. Arts and crafts shows would be a godd venue to get started. Just another slant on woodworking as a vocation.

[herb fellows]

I sell high end, one of a kind glass jewelry, made by one artist. To say the market is in the toilet right now would be an understatement.
Places that used to call me don't even return calls right now.
I just came back from the Baltimore ACC craft show, where I spoke to a number of artist friends who sell there. This is the premier craft show in the country. The wholesale end of it was the worst anyone has ever seen, I'm stil waiting for the retail report.

Not to discourage you from the idea, just that the timing is horrible. Bide your time if you can, hone the craft in anticipation of a better economy.

[bfrikken]

Cool! If you have the time to make things to sell, why not?

Lately, I've seen simple toy boxes that people have made. Sort of like a simple hope chest or blanket chest. Those seem to go over well.

A few projects that I have made that have gotten good reactions from people are attempted copies of furniture we saw at stores like Pottery Barn or Crate and Barrel. The furniture there is actually pretty simple in some cases, just the emphasis is on the finish. I've been known to take pictures of their stuff and jot down measurements in store. Pottery barn had 4 end tables that nest together for 60 bucks a piece. I built mine with pine from the BORG for just over 20 bucks for material, and another 15 or so for finishing. My wife loves them, and I have gotten compliments on them a few times (even before someone realized I built them).

The last craft fair we went to, there was one fella selling some real nice furniture pieces. Sofa tables, end tables, a tv stand. He seemed very disappointed by the day's take. I think he did a lot better then some vendors, but he said he was considering not doing a craft fair again. I think if his pieces were more "artistic" he'd have done better. But he was catering to my taste of simple functional pieces that I saw real beauty in.

I'd be sure to spend real time on taking good pictures. You could post them to Craigslist or start a small website cheaply. Lately, I've heard a few times when you build something to sell, build two.

Good luck

[bfrikken]

Oh, and look to your local lumber places outside of the big box stores. My local place charges a little more then if I went right to the sawmill, but their selection is always great and their sales people are more helpful and knowledgable. Plus they sometimes provide perks that are to me amazing. Right now, our local place is offering free Planing for any order for the month. They also have great deals on glued panels. They do all the work for those panels and the extra charges are minimal in my opinion over time saved.

[Larry David]

Wow! What a great response. I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and ideas. Yes, the timing couldn't be worse, the economy is really bad. I do not plan on giving up my "day job" to do this anytime soon. So, what I think I will do is build several pieces during the weekends and evenings developing my own style. I'll try to market these pieces locally and may give ebay and/or craigslist a try and see what happens. I guess, worst case, is I end up with some nice bookcases to either keep or they would make for nice Christmas presents.

RayintheUK...Thank you for your detailed response and the concerns regarding product liability. I really have not given that issue a lot of thought. But I will now.

Thanks again averyone!

[messmaker]

You can sell them if you go low enough.
You can save time by making a bunch at once.
Bookcases take up a lot of room.
It can be lot of work for a small return.

[Stytooner]

Take all the advice here to heart. Then go out and make it work. Find a way to provide something that isn't readily available and do it. Be a self starter and get to it. There is money to be made, but you have to find a way to get high quality products into the homes of those that want it at an affordable price for them. I have faith in you, now git er done.