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"A fine beer may be judged with just one sip, but it is better to be thoroughly sure" -
What episode/project was that? I must have missed it as I don't have any Festools listed on my site (the normstools.com site mentioned earlier). I've been watching for one, too, but one's never shown up. I've been waiting in vain for a Milwaukee, too, but I don't that's going to happen, either.
I suspect you may have confused NYW with TOH in this regard. Tom Silva uses several Festools, and I specifically remember him demonstrating the circular saw with the non-slip rip guide on the Concord Cottage project. I think it was to Norm.
If memory serves, Tom has also used a Festool router, a Festool jigsaw, and a Festool cordless drill. And he's also demonstrated at least one on Ask This Old House.
LRod
WoodButcher.net
NormsTools.comLast edited by Guest; 03-13-2009, 10:35 AM. Reason: incorporate signature script, linkicize the normstools site.Comment
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Why Norm Abram is cavalier..
Well, I hope that this does not turn into a "Norm bashing" of sorts. I'm not taking sides with the man, but the truth is he is an excellent woodworker.
I think that some newbie woodworkers are turned off by the sight of his shop, and the way it is equipped for television. The truth about the New Yankee Workshop is it belongs to the show's producer...Russell Morash not Norm Abram! Norm's personal shop is probably quite different than the one on tv.
If anyone would like to see Norm using tools other than Porter-Cable, Delta,
and their product lines, they should find one of the older copies of the New Yankee Workshop books from 1989. Some of those pictures show Norm using
a Shopsmith machine, an aluminum router table, and a benchtop planer (12 1/2" size). These pictures were from the days before the show producers started disguising or covering the machine maker's labels, like they do now!
He also used a good amount of handheld tools (routers and such) and other tools and benches that look more like what the rest of us in the real world use on a regular basis! The point to all of this is....you don't have to have the best in the world to produce good projects. Decent power and hand tools in the proper hands can produce works of art, cheap tools usually
produce junk, a craftsman can do his thing because of ability and training not just tools!Last edited by eezlock; 03-13-2009, 12:30 AM.Comment
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Norm designed the shop as he saw fit. As I pointed out earlier, yes it is on Russ' property but Norm designed the layout and has most of the say on the tools and such that go in there. For all intents and purposes, it is his shop.
As for his shop possibly looking quite different, that is up for speculation and until a photo surfaces we could debate that to no end. So what if he has a shop like one of ours? He has access to Russ' that he designed for himself and the show obviously. If you had a choice between using your shop or the one that NYW is filmed in for your projects, which would you use?
Also, I do believe that a lot of the stuff he builds for TV ends up in his own home. They build two of each and I believe I remember reading that one goes to Russ and Norm gets to keep the other."A fine beer may be judged with just one sip, but it is better to be thoroughly sure"Comment
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I read/heard/saw somewhere that Norm Abram's own shop is quite modest. I don't recall that any specifics were given but I remember getting the impression of something about the size of a one-car garage, possibly located in a basement. He has a book entitled "Norm Abram's New House" that may have some info on it. (I've never seen a copy, so I don't know.) I concur that when you have the NYW at your disposal, there's little point in setting up a world-class shop using your own money.
I have read the same thing about where the two copies that are typically built of each project end up; also that sometimes one or two more are made, and that these go to whoever has the kind of pull it takes to get one of them.LarryComment
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Amen to that! That is my biggest beef against Spagnola and so many of the other "review" sites. They sold out for the promise of free Festools. Watching Norm use a 20" jointer, I can still apply the same principles to my 6 1/2" jointer. The Domino? How does that help me?
How many people watching Norm actually go out and build a reproduction highboy complete with hand carving? Close to none I would guess. But, there is great value in learning good techniques, applying them to more modest projects and being inspired to stretch yourself.Doug Kerfoot
"Sacrificial fence? Aren't they all?"
Smaller, Smarter Hardware Keyloggers
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KeyLlama.comComment
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I met Norm at IWF last fall but.... I have never seen his TV show, whatever it is. He's a nice guy in person but I cannot comment on his ability. I will say that his show from what I hear has introduced many newbies to WW that ended up jumping on the band-wagon.
So.. kudo's for that aspect...Comment
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Cite please. Every interview with either Norm or Russ that I've ever read or seen indicates that it is largely a collaborative effort. However, Morash is no shrinking violet, and although he may defer to Norm In areas where Norm is clearly the expert (building, contracting, engineering), I don't think there's any doubt who runs the show, and that includes the layout of his shop.
As far as having "most of the say on the tools and such that go in there" I think you have to remember who is funding the program, who is bankrolling the project, and who is producing the program. As Delta/Porter-Cable are the major funders, I'm guessing they are driving the ship as to major product placement. WGBH foots the bill for procuction, and although Morash has been their golden goose since Julia Child began in the '60s, they're still certain to have a finger in the pie. And Morash is the producer. See above. While "iron fisted" would be too strong a word, he knows what he's doing, he knows he knows what he's doing, and everyone else seems to know it, too, so if you are looking for fingerprints on The New Yankee Workshop, they're Morash's.
But don't think for a second that Norm, or anyone else associated in the actual production are operating in a vacuum. See "collaborative" above.
Again, I'd like a cite.He has access to Russ' that he designed for himself...Comment
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Followup on alleged Festool appearance
I had raised the question that there had ever been a Festool used on NYW and with information in hand from a PM from Jon, went back and searched the last four seasons (not including any of the current season which are reruns of Season 9). I also went over my existing data and present the following:
Norm has only ever used four random orbit sanders (the type Jon thought he saw)--a Bosch 3283 (twice in Season 5), a Fein (11 times between Seasons 5 and 9), a Porter-Cable 333, and a Porter-Cable 733x. The 733x is a little ambiguous as there are several versions and his could be a 7335 or a 7336, for example. It's not important as they are functionally identical and physically indistinguishable.
Based on Jon's recollection that it was "...a Rotex sander...a fairly recent episode. A season or two back perhaps?" I checked Seasons 17 through 20 (2005-2008). The 733x was used in episodes 1701. 1704, 1710, 1711, 1902, 1903, 1911, 2004, and 2007. The 333 was used in Episodes 1707, 1811, 1901, 1904, 1912, 2001, and 2002. Although that's what I had in my spreadsheet, I scanned every episode from those four seasons to verify I hadn't misidentified either of the sanders and that I hadn't missed an appearance of another sander.
Each occurrence of either sander was unequivocal in identity. First there's no mistaking one from the other and second none of the Festool ROS' looks like either P-C when viewed in total. All of the ROS occurrences I saw in the seasons in question showed enough of the sander to not only differentiate between the two P-C models, but to distinguish a Festool if there had been one. There was not.
Now, I've made mistakes in my findings in the past. And viewing 50+ episodes in a couple of days (among all the other stuff I have going on) can lead to gloss over. So I won't say absolutely, no there was not. But if anyone has a definitive sighting to report, I'd be grateful for it. Please tell me the episode number or the project. I have all the episodes available for review, and full episodes (not edited HGTV or DIY versions) from 1999 on (and several from before then), so if you saw it, and you can tell me what project, I'll find it. And, of course, I'll be happy to add it to the archive.
Finally, and this is all Jon's fault, I found I hadn't transcribed all of the appearances of the 733x from my spread sheets to the specific tool page and that instead of a mere 30-some appearances, the 733x has actually been used in 51 episodes, thus qualifying it as the newest member of my Norm's Tools Hall of Fame. Let's see, I had to recode the tool page, recode the HoF page...damn arguments...Comment
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Welcome toolguy!
I like norm's show. There have been many a show that have been inspirational to me, albeit sometimes well above my level. As someone already mentioned we accumulate tools as we age in our hobby. I want to also point out that we also accumulate knowledge and experience and can do things better and differently than we could when we were green. We also start to apportion more money perhaps, so I dont think his collection is that outlandish. We have people right on this forum that have pm table saws and festool domino's etc. I believe a pm t.s. is more than a uni saw (i guess depending on model). Don't forget that alot of that equipment could have been given free as product placement or for testing. I believe we have someone on this forum that receives Steel City tools for free for testing dont we?
Stop being jealous 
lest the good fortune pass you by!
Last edited by chopnhack; 03-20-2009, 01:28 PM.I think in straight lines, but dream in curves
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Do you really think so? Norm's showed has always been pitched as high-class (as in production quality) furniture making with a few shows that cover something else. Season 20 was all about the kitchen. How many weekend woodworkers are going to do cabinets for a kitchen? Pretty much only those who can afford the tools or the time it takes to do things by hand.I think for the case of the "Joe Six Pack", Marc Spagnulo, and the guys at Wood Magazine are MUCH better teachers of the art. Sure they like a well equipped shop as much as anyone else, but they also show us how to make do with what we may have on hand...
Saying that Norm is a poor teacher of woodworking because his shop has stuff you cannot afford is like saying that Gordon Ramsey is a poor teacher of chefs because he uses rare raw materials like quaill eggs.Comment
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Sorry, I have to defend Spagnola. Yes, he does show the Festools, but he constantly tells folks ways to get by without the big tools. He has tons of opportunities to mention brand names, and for the most part, I think he resists.He also has some of the most listenable content on the internet, IMHO.That's the reason I started following him and why I continue to do so. Maybe it's just me, but I like a little entertainment with my woodworking, and I think he is the most entertaining woodworker on the net, bar none.You don't need a parachute to skydive, you only need a parachute to skydive twice.Comment
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I only watch Norm when I stumble upon a show.
One thing I would like to hear is something like "well in making that draw I screwed up on this joint. Here is how to fix it so no one would know".
It seems all my projects have a screwup somewhere where I have to make it look like I planned it that way.
Tom on MarrowstoneComment
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This is a hard one for me. hardly any of them seem to represent the real world to me.. Nahm is grst craftsman, but I find making reproductions of great old antiques with the most possible use of a biscuit jointer a little unsatisfying. I watch from week to week to see if he might actually use a hand tool.
I think of David Marks more as an artist. He makes some really great pieces of art from wood. But I don't think I'm ever going to make many pieces of furniture from wenge or bubinga. So I would watch him mostly for his techniques & methods, thinking well maybe I can use that some day.
Then there is Roy Underhill, I think he is just a bit too masochistic. There have been a lot of advancements in technology in the last 300 years & he for the most part just ignores all that. He did have a guest on the last show I saw who had taken the old original hand tools & updated them & specialized them for the type of chair he was making. It was quite refreshing.
And don't forget that father & son team form North Dakota that can buld an entire house using only a router.
I thin currently the one a appreciate most is the new show from the guys at the Wordsmith Shop Mag. They seem to focus more on the latest in techniques & procedures & not so much on the actual tools.Comment
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