MilDoc again

[bfrikken]

I just read through this thread, and with great interest since i have two kids under the age of 4. I wish I could say that I had a clear opinion on this and could provide a real clear point. But anyways, here's a few thoughts that I had pop up..

One thing that has bothered me is that much of what Dr's try to do in treating or in this case vaccinating our kids is try to give us the best care for our predicament. I have great insurance, but one factor that kills me is that I can only get so many office visits for the kids and so much $$ towards the treatments per year. So, our doc just flooded the kids with vaccinations all at one time that COULD Have been spread out. Now if he spread that out, I'd have been charged for multiple office visits, and I'd have had to pay that out of pocket. Last year was the 2nd year I had to pay something out of pocket for office visits and vaccinations as it is.

So, with the doc's being between a rock and a hard place, I think they are careful about these things. Also from their scientific point of view, the numbers are not huge against this method. It is VERY Large from our concerned parents point of view. A sample news story here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17047721/ shows a report that around 1 in 150 kids IN THIS REPORT are diagnosed with autism. 6.6 per 1,000.

In my opinion it all boils down to a serious need for Health Care Reform. I've found fault with doctors that we've seen, hospitals, and insurance. Since we get to deal with them in all this, we don't get face time with Govt.

Additionally, bring up the vaccination discussion with Doctors and you immediately get a defensive reaction. In fact, We left our family doctor because of similar discussions. He was quite adamant about the effects of "self diagnosing" and what he called laymans investigation into these topics. Now my wife and I are both well educated, and we don't take much at face value. I also know that in each graduating class, someone finishes at the bottom, so I'll gladly expect docs to come off their ivorty tower and talk realistically with me. Point one, Much "self diagnosing" and investigation is what got us to go to the doctor before. I just go in with a better awareness of what to expect and an understanding of what is going on. Same thing with the treatment of our kids. I wonder what would have happened if we said we wanted specific vaccinations and not others? Are they (our doc) equipped for such a request? would they do that?

[paintandbodtman]

.

One thing that has bothered me is that much of what Dr's try to do in treating or in this case vaccinating our kids is try to give us the best care for our predicament. I have great insurance, but one factor that kills me is that I can only get so many office visits for the kids and so much $$ towards the treatments per year. So, our doc just flooded the kids with vaccinations all at one time that COULD Have been spread out. Now if he spread that out, I'd have been charged for multiple office visits, and I'd have had to pay that out of pocket. Last year was the 2nd year I had to pay something out of pocket for office visits and vaccinations as it is.

Why would a parent that is well educated and leary of the problems that to many vaccinations all at once may or may not cause, elect to expose their child to the risk just to save a few co-pays out of their pocket.
I will never understand that line of reasoning.

[jking]

One thing that has bothered me is that much of what Dr's try to do in treating or in this case vaccinating our kids is try to give us the best care for our predicament. I have great insurance, but one factor that kills me is that I can only get so many office visits for the kids and so much $$ towards the treatments per year. So, our doc just flooded the kids with vaccinations all at one time that COULD Have been spread out. Now if he spread that out, I'd have been charged for multiple office visits, and I'd have had to pay that out of pocket. Last year was the 2nd year I had to pay something out of pocket for office visits and vaccinations as it is.

I don't mean to offend, but, the way you phrased this makes it sound like you are willing to at the least put your kids through great discomfort, & possibly through what you perceive to be a risk all for saving an office copay. I'm hoping I misunderstood your point.

I would certainly have been looking for a new doctor if the one your were seeing was willing to give all of the vaccinations at once.

[drumpriest]

I can't imagine not having to pay out of pocket for going to the doctors. I think we paid 800$ for them to look at Harrison and say that he was fine.

MilDoc, very good then on the study concerning the initial vaccination, though of course I never stated that it was the cause or the sole cause of autism in children. I imagine that there are many factors. I'm sure a good part of why it's a confusing topic for parents is that if you even google the subject you find several studies on both sides of the fence.

Doctor's are human, they do screw up just as much as the rest of us. I've been misdiagnosed, had my symptoms ignored by doctors, for years, had one doc tell me my broken elbow was fine, because it'll perform like an 80 years old's... I have not sued any of them, but I would expect them to humbly admit when they are wrong. I don't take anything told me by what is essentially a stranger on faith. I work in a very high tech field, and know a thing or two about the implications of chaos theory in overly complex systems. It is often nearly impossible to find a cause for an issue, even given infinite time, so I'm not always confident in a diagnosis based upon 5 minutes of looking at me for a couple hundred dollars pay.

Having said that, I have also had the pleasure of meeting some fantastic doctors, and still drive hours out of my way to see my GI specialist. If you can find a good one, hold on to them.

[bfrikken]

I don't mean to offend, but, the way you phrased this makes it sound like you are willing to at the least put your kids through great discomfort, & possibly through what you perceive to be a risk all for saving an office copay. I'm hoping I misunderstood your point.

I would certainly have been looking for a new doctor if the one your were seeing was willing to give all of the vaccinations at once.

No, sorry about the confusion. What I'm saying is I can see that is being the reasoning why they group them together and something to consider. Our current pediatrician did everything the way we wanted to. We did end up paying a office copay out of pocket, and it did irk me that was going to be the case, but it was just money. but to some, that amount of money is a lot more then it was to us.

[djkert]

\
There was a period of several years where the HepB vaccine at birth was stopped. Some hospitals did not restart even after thimerosol was removed form all vaccines (except influenza). These studies have been going on since even before the suspension of the vaccine, during the suspension, and after. There was no change in rates of suspected, then later proven, incidence of autism, predicted with testing at 6-8 weeks of age.

Mildoc, can you please provide some information on these studies? I am surprised I haven't heard about them. And since some of the information you posted before just simply isn't true, I'd like to see where you get your information from. Also, how do you test for autism at 6-8 weeks? They must be using a medical breakthough the rest of the world hasn't heard about.

[bfrikken]

Mildoc, can you please provide some information on these studies? I am surprised I haven't heard about them. And since some of the information you posted before just simply isn't true, I'd like to see where you get your information from. Also, how do you test for autism at 6-8 weeks? They must be using a medical breakthough the rest of the world hasn't heard about.

No need to hold Mildoc to the fire here. this is getting a little too much towards an attack on him on a topic and discussion that I don't think was meant to be personal.

[MilDoc]

No need to hold Mildoc to the fire here. this is getting a little too much towards an attack on him on a topic and discussion that I don't think was meant to be personal.

Which is why I am no longer responding. Especially to ad hominem attacks.

[Ed62]

I'm sorry I started this thread. Since I really have nothing to go on to form an opinion, I just wanted Paul's view on it. I got that early on, and I never expected this to become such an opinionated thread. My apologies to all.

Ed

[MilDoc]

No problem Ed. I try to explain things as I see them, from reading tons of journals every month, as well as researching things on the net. I try to summarize simply without overwhelming folks with pretty boring statistics, epidemiology, etc.

But, as I said before, this whole subject has entered the realm of "folklore." All thanks to Dr Wakefield and the piece of garbage paper he published in 1993, which has since been disavowed by all his co-authors.

And if you want to believe in conspiracy theories, or believe that celebrities know more than true experts in various fields, be my guest.

If you want absolute certainty and safety in life, good luck.

Do you let your child swim? Shame! Thousands drown every year.

Do you take your child driving with you? Shame! Thousands die in auto accidents every year.

Let your child play sports? Do you know how many die from sports, how many tens of thousands wind up in ERs every year from serious injuries? Ortho docs love trampolines, in-line skates, heelies, etc. They call them "job assurance."

Yeah. It's ridiculous. There is no perfectly safe activity. BUT having unvaccinated children will result in far more deaths than all the above combined.

There is simply no way to insure that all vaccines and all vaccine schedules are perfectly safe. Not when newborns and parents have hundreds of man made chemicals in their blood.

But I am convinced that there is no connection between vaccines and autism for all the reasons I've attempted to point out. Every "article" published showing a connection can be torn apart on many fronts, from methodology to analysis. Every article showing no connection, based on large scale epidemiological studies of thousands, tens of thousands, millions of kids, stands up to such analysis.

And ongoing research to diagnose autism at earlier and earlier ages also confirms this.

But, folks, believe what you want. i'm outta here.

[MilDoc]

I have had the distinct pleasure of meeting MILDOC a few years ago, while stationed at Ft. Hood, TX. He was one of a few doctors that looked after my son that was suffering from a respiratory ailment that many could not figure out. Paul, you are a blessing to the community of Ft. Hood and I wish there were more doctors like you. I retired over a year ago, my son is healthy and growing like a weed. Thanks for your tireless devotion to the masses that swarm your office everyday!

Caddis295

Thanks! I appreciate the compliment! Glad your son is doing well now!

[OpaDC]

And on that note I vote for this post be locked. It has turned personal in my opinion! Only one has admitted to being in the medical profession. Others on both sides have made statements based on what they have read without giving specifics yet demanding detailed reports from others. Ed asked a question of MilDoc and he gave his professional opinion. Should have ended there.
And oh BTW, this is from one whose Grandson was diagnosed at 2 years of age with autism, then asperger's syndrome, and most recently with an IQ of 150 at the age of 5. Don't know where this is taking us, but that's what it is. Just thankful he is not one of the severe autism children, just kind of quirky.

[crokett]

Ed, since you are the one who started this thread I will lock it if you want.

[crokett]

Locked at the request of one of the involved members.