MilDoc again

[Ed62]

Hi Paul,

I'm sure you probably heard about Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy in Washington http://www.popcrunch.com/jim-carrey-...washington-dc/ . I'm just wondering what your thoughts were on this. If there's anything to it, we should all be more than a little concerned.

Ed

[MilDoc]

Sorry, I don't take advice from someone with an IQ of 36D. ;-)

Hundreds of well-done studies showing no effect convinces no one, let alone celebrities.

[RAFlorida]

Thanks to MilDoc, I've gotta clean the ice tea

off the monitor screen now!

[Ed62]

OK. Thanks for posting your view on the subject.

Ed

[gsmittle]

Paul, I don't know how to tell you this, but it's a vast medical-pharmaceutical-complex conspiracy. All the studies were skewed or outright falsehoods.

Sheesh, what some people want to believe! Next we'll hear there's no aliens in Area 51.

Personally, I've had all my shots. Maybe that's the problem.

g.

[Uncle Cracker]

Sorry, but this is a sore spot for me. Spent the last 11 years of my life much closer than I want to be to this issue. Heard dozens of medicos use millions of words to say basically the same thing about autism: "We don't have any idea what causes it...". So forgive me if I'm a little cynical when any study, or anybody, claims that they know for certain what doesn't cause it. Until we have a definitive answer, I'm not gonna dump on anybody who is still asking the question. And you can't dismiss any possibility if you are faced with this dilemma in your own family. Jenny McCarthy's whole life became centered on her little boy over this affliction, and I applaud her for that. Right or wrong, I don't see any humor in it whatsoever.

Rant off.

[MilDoc]

There is no humor in it. And there will be even less as parents fail to vaccinate and kids die from measles, polio, Hemophilus infections, etc. I've seen all of that. I don't want to see it again.

The studies I referred to involved countries that removed thimerosol from vaccines years before we did, and still saw increases in autism. Countries that stopped giving MMR, and still saw increases in autism.

Studies that show autism can be detected as young as 6-8 weeks, long before any child receives any vaccines.

A recent study that connects development of autism to maternal antibodies that react with fetal brain tissue, in the womb.

And I could go on and on and on. Vaccines do not cause autism.

If you don't want your child protected from serious life threatening illnesses, that's your choice. If you child dies because of that, I will feel sorry for your child. But not for you.

[Uncle Cracker]

Studies also have shown that studies often show exactly what those funding them want them to show...

[Ed62]

The reason I brought this up is that I saw Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy on TV the other day. They both agreed that it wouldn't be a good idea to stop vaccinations, but maybe have more time between shots. I have no idea about this stuff, so I asked.

Ed

[jonmulzer]

I have to ask, why are there so many different poisonous, toxic substances in vaccines? Can they not make a vaccine without putting mercury, arsenic and (I am ill so I don't feel like pulling up the websites) in our shots?? I believe the question needs to be asked, and often. And if all of these chemicals in the vaccines do not effect those they are administered to, then why do the President, cabinet members, congress, etc. get a different vaccine than us peasants?

[jonmulzer]

Studies also have shown that studies often show exactly what those funding them want them to show...

*thumbs up* Exactly!

[djkert]

It seems people on this board know more than the former head of the NIH.

Dr. Bernadine Healy is the former head of the National Institutes of Health, and the most well-known medical voice yet to break with her colleagues on the vaccine-autism question.

In an exclusive interview with CBS News, Healy said the question is still open.

"I think that the public health officials have been too quick to dismiss the hypothesis as irrational," Healy said.

As far as poking jabs at the conspiracy theories, it seems she thinks it has merit

Healy goes on to say public health officials have intentionally avoided researching whether subsets of children are “susceptible” to vaccine side effects - afraid the answer will scare the public.

"You're saying that public health officials have turned their back on a viable area of research largely because they're afraid of what might be found?" Attkisson asked.

Healy said: "There is a completely expressed concern that they don't want to pursue a hypothesis because that hypothesis could be damaging to the public health community at large by scaring people. "First of all," Healy said, "I think the public’s smarter than that. The public values vaccines. But more importantly, I don’t think you should ever turn your back on any scientific hypothesis because you’re afraid of what it might show."

As an example, Healy points to the existing vaccine court claims.

CBS News has learned the government has paid more than 1,300 brain injury claims in vaccine court since 1988, but is not studying those cases or tracking how many of them resulted in autism.

The branch of the government that handles vaccine court told CBS News: “Some children who have been compensated for vaccine injuries…may ultimately end up with autism or autistic symptoms, but we do not track cases on this basis.”

"What we’re seeing in the bulk of the population: vaccines are safe," said Healy. "But there may be this susceptible group. The fact that there is concern, that you don’t want to know that susceptible group is a real disappointment to me. If you know that susceptible group, you can save those children. If you turn your back on the notion that there is a susceptible group… what can I say?"

As far as the latest studies, hear is one for you

Washington, DC - A newly published study in the Journal of the Neurological Sciences, [1] the official journal of the World Federation of Neurology, [2] links mercury from the Thimerosal in vaccines with autism and other neurodevelopmental disorders.

[Uncle Cracker]

Didn't mean to be divisive. Only meant that, no matter what your position, there are bound to be studies that support it, and others that condemn it. It takes more than studies to make anything absolute. I'm sure that at one time, there were studies that supported the position that the world was flat...

With regard to autism, until we know what causes it, we cannot ignore any possibility. Since the incidence has increased from one case in 10,000 to 1 case in 167 in recent years, it certainly would indicate that there is somewhat more than evolution or random chance at work here.

[MilDoc]

Since the incidence has increased from one case in 10,000 to 1 case in 167 in recent years, it certainly would indicate that there is somewhat more than evolution or random chance at work here.

Not necessarily. 35 years ago the diagnosis of autism was very, very limited. Now we include pervasive developmental disorder, childhood disintegrative disorder, and others in the "autism spectrum." If the same had been done 35 years ago the rate of autism would have been similarly high.

And, "autism" has become a garbage can diagnosis for just about everything. And is being diagnosed by very unqualified people.

Example, a few weeks ago I saw a new patient 7 year old male, diagnosed autistic at age 4. Took me one glance to know he was not autistic. He had an obvious genetic syndrome called Angelman's Syndrome, a gene defect we've know for years, and appropriate genetic studies confirmed that. I've seen several cases over my career, but obviously his previous docs have not.

BTW, most vaccine injury cases were based on prior use of DTP vaccine, which was known to, and did cause brain damage in rare instances. We now use DTaP which has shown no serious side effects at all.

The studies I quoted before were based on national health numbers, easily trackable in other countries but not here. Basically, they were not "funded" in the usual sense of the word.

Dr. Healy is a cardiologist. She may have headed the NIH (a political appointment) but she has no specific training in epidemiology, virology, etc. She is entitled to her opinion.

They study in the Journal of Neurologic Sciences has been so torn apart by epidemiologists, and many others, I won't even comment on it. It is lousy in way too many aspects. If you're interested, see:
http://epiwonk.com/?p=55

But, this whole topic has entered folklore and will never die off, no matter how many excellent studies show no connection.

[djkert]

If the same had been done 35 years ago the rate of autism would have been similarly high.

Doubt that. Talk to any school teacher. They'll tell you. Everywhere I go I see an autistic kid. Lack of speech, hand-flapping, clearly identified. It wasn't like that in the 80's

The studies I quoted before were based on national health numbers, easily trackable in other countries but not here. Basically, they were not "funded" in the usual sense of the word.

What studies are you referring to, you haven't named any specifically.

They study in the Journal of Neurologic Sciences has been so torn apart by epidemiologists, and many others, I won't even comment on it.

I think that is my point. Every study can be torn apart (and has). Just saying a study says this or that certainly isn't proof.

But, this whole topic has entered folklore and will never die off, no matter how many excellent studies show no connection.

Still waiting for that excellent study?