Questions for the gun enthusiasts

[Anna]

I just found myself a new hobby/obsession.

Handled a gun for the first time over the weekend during a CCW class, and I loved it. I'm trying to get my own gun, a Sig 232, which is similar to the Sig 230 I used during the class, and I'm wondering if anyone can suggest good online stores for the ammo. The 0.380 caliber rounds are about $30 per 100 at WalMart, and I was hoping I can get them cheaper somewhere else.

I also currently have, and am certified to own/shoot, a Browning 1922 which probably hasn't been cleaned since the '70s. Any suggestions on which cleaning kit I should get? It's also a 0.380 caliber.

Thanks.

[jonmulzer]

That price is not actually pretty good. I used to spend about a buck a round for handgun shells when I used to shoot all the time, but that was good ammo before I started handloading.

[iceman61]

I also currently have, and am certified to own/shoot, a Browning 1922 which probably hasn't been cleaned since the '70s. Any suggestions on which cleaning kit I should get? It's also a 0.380 caliber.

Thanks.

I still remember what our instructor told us. Don't shoot unless you have to & if you do, shoot to kill. Dead people can't sue.

You mean in your state you have to be recertified if you decide to buy a .45?
Or am I reading your post wrong? We get certified here with a hand gun but after that we can use/carry any hand gun we choose, as long as it is a legal hand gun. I think you should call & get verification on this.

When buying ammo, buy hollow points for protection, buy different ammo for target practice.

[maxparot]

I have a couple of .380 caliber handguns I usually pay less that $10 / 50 rounds of ammo. As for cleaning use the same brushes and mops you'd use for a 38.

[nothing]

Depending on your states laws you might be able to order ammo online. I usually purchase bulk from www.ammoman.com and www.natchezss.com .
For your carry loads don't got too cheap. Use a good reliable round and don't be afraid to experiment to see what shoots best from your weapon. Federal, Winchester, Speer, Corbon, Gold Dot are good examples. You don't want your gun to jam or fail to go bang because you went cheap on ammo.

For a cleaning kit it's really better to just make your own. Get a 9mm boresnake (it's the same bore diameter as a .380), some old T-shirts for rags, Q-Tips, a nylon M-16 brush and a can of Breakfree CLP, Militec, or Eezox. All three of these will clean, lubricate and protect. Breakfree is the best all around, Eezox seems to have the best rust protection and Militec will run dry so it's great for a dusty environment

On an occasion give the barrel a good scrubbing with some Hopps #9 and a 9mm jag w/a patch. Only put the Hopps in the barrell. You will have to degrease the frame if you put it on the slide with CLP since it can cause it to gum up.

Expect people to give you grief over caliber selections, but ignore it. Shoot what you are comfortable with. The largest biggest baddest round in the world doesn't do any good if you can't hit your target.

[Anna]

You mean in your state you have to be recertified if you decide to buy a .45?
Or am I reading your post wrong? We get certified here with a hand gun but after that we can use/carry any hand gun we choose, as long as it is a legal hand gun. I think you should call & get verification on this.

We used to have the same law, but the sheriff decided that some people are carrying guns they're not even familiar with so he changed the rules. Now each time you want to carry a gun, you have to get re-certified for it unless it's the same model. For the same models, you still have to register the different serial numbers. You're basically only allowed to CCW for a particular make, model and serial number that is listed on the permit. If it's not for CCW, you can get any CA-certified handgun without certification.

If I decide to get a Bersa or Kahr for concealed carry, I have to go back to the certification instructor and get through the shooting test again. No big deal, though, because I really enjoy shooting. Funny, since before this weekend, you won't even find me in the same room with a gun.

Had to add:

I still remember what our instructor told us. Don't shoot unless you have to & if you do, shoot to kill. Dead people can't sue.

I was cringing every time they described how we're supposed to shoot the bad guy: where the maximum damage is (upper chest area), spread the shots out to get more internal organs, where to go if that doesn't stop them (between the eyes), etc.

I thought, "Shouldn't we be learning how to shoot them in the arm or leg just to incapacitate them?"

Then they told us that if he's wearing a bullet proof vest, shoot at the hip to get him down, THEN get him between the eyes.

I honestly don't know if I can ever shoot to kill because of all the years of programming we've had about just giving up and not fighting to make the bad man go away. I have to work on the idea that if this guy points a gun at me, chances are he'll use it. I've got quite a ways to go.

Shooting targets at the range is so much fun, though.

[Anna]

Depending on your states laws you might be able to order ammo online. I usually purchase bulk from www.ammoman.com and www.natchezss.com .
For your carry loads don't got too cheap. Use a good reliable round and don't be afraid to experiment to see what shoots best from your weapon. Federal, Winchester, Speer, Corbon, Gold Dot are good examples. You don't want your gun to jam or fail to go bang because you went cheap on ammo.

For a cleaning kit it's really better to just make your own. Get a 9mm boresnake (it's the same bore diameter as a .380), some old T-shirts for rags, Q-Tips, a nylon M-16 brush and a can of Breakfree CLP, Militec, or Eezox. All three of these will clean, lubricate and protect. Breakfree is the best all around, Eezox seems to have the best rust protection and Militec will run dry so it's great for a dusty environment

On an occasion give the barrel a good scrubbing with some Hopps #9 and a 9mm jag w/a patch. Only put the Hopps in the barrell. You will have to degrease the frame if you put it on the slide with CLP since it can cause it to gum up.

Expect people to give you grief over caliber selections, but ignore it. Shoot what you are comfortable with. The largest biggest baddest round in the world doesn't do any good if you can't hit your target.

Thanks for the shopping links and suggested brands for the ammo; the only ones our Walmart carries is Winchester or Remington. I think we're allowed to buy online, but I'll make sure.

I've already gone through the "0.380 is too underpowered" debate every time I talk to a guy about it. I think guys generally have decided if it's not at least a 9mm, then it's too wimpy (although a 0.380 is technically a 9mm short).

Thanks for the recommendations on cleaning the gun, too. I'm still nervous about taking the Browning apart. I don't have the manual since this is pretty much inherited. It's made in 1922/1923, but it still shoots great. I'll pick up the Militec tomorrow and see if I can get enough gumption to finally take the gun apart. I just hope I'll be able to put it back together again.

[Red88chevy]

I haven't shot much the past few years due to lack of a good range, but CCI use to make a cheap ammo that couldn't be reloaded, I think it was called Blazer. Just shoot it and throw away the casing. Should be able to get 50 rds of that for less than $10. "Cheaper than Dirt" has great prices on ammo and a nice online site, of course shipping will add to the cost. You can ususally get some inexpensive reloads from a gun show if they have one near you. And don't worry about using a 380, in WWII many of the U.S. staff officers carried a 380 colt in a shoulder holster, the German officers often carried a 32 or 380 (metric measurements), and the current Russian pistol uses a round very similar to the 9 short called the 9x18 Markarov.

[iceman61]

Just make sure that if you ever have to use your weapon, that you make the 1st shot count. If you miss odds are that any other shot will be in the perpetrators butt since anybody with half a brain would turn & run if he hears the loud crack of a round wizzing by his head.

I have a Glock .40 cal, a Colt .45, and a Mauser .380 & the .380 is the loudest of them all. It will definately scare the crap out of somebody with the loudness.

[just started]

I haven't shot much the past few years due to lack of a good range, but CCI use to make a cheap ammo that couldn't be reloaded, I think it was called Blazer. Just shoot it and throw away the casing. Should be able to get 50 rds of that for less than $10. "Cheaper than Dirt" has great prices on ammo and a nice online site, of course shipping will add to the cost. You can ususally get some inexpensive reloads from a gun show if they have one near you. And don't worry about using a 380, in WWII many of the U.S. staff officers carried a 380 colt in a shoulder holster, the German officers often carried a 32 or 380 (metric measurements), and the current Russian pistol uses a round very similar to the 9 short called the 9x18 Markarov.

If you use Blazer ammo you need to clean every time you shoot. Most indoor ranges won't even allow it anymore because of how dirty it is.

[just started]

For carry I prefer Glasser Safety Slugs, which will not ricochet or go through a wall into the next room if you miss. When you practice for saving your (or a loved one's) life, practice "double-tap" shooting - 2 aimed shots as fast as you can (ON TARGET) and quickly evaluate, if he's still alive 2 more.

I'm one of those who think a .45 is the best defense round if you are comfortable with it, but being comfortable with the gun/round combination and the recoil and size of the weapon is the most important thing.

[os1kne]

ammoman.com for purchasing ammunition online. You can get a decent cleaning kit that will suit your needs at just about any sporting goods store. Boresnakes are great for quick cleaning the bore.

God forbid you ever need to, go for the upper torso first. Trying to shoot someone (that is likely moving) in the arm, hand, etc. with a handgun in a high-stress situation is pretty much impossible - remember the "target" won't be stationary like at the range, it will be closing in on you and trying to harm you - there won't be time for precision aiming.

Be safe and good luck!

[ejs1097]

Ammo for a .22 is dirt cheap, you might want to consider getting a .22 in addition to a .38. Sounds like you really like shooting now and the ammo price factor can make a difference. You could easily spend $30 in 1 trip to the range with 100 rounds. But with a .22 you could shoot a clip or 2 with the .38 then spend the rest of the time shooting cheap .22 rounds.

just a thought.

[Bruce Cohen]

Anna,

I've been shooting pistols and revolvers for over 40 years now, both foor competition and for the U.S. Gov't.

What you want to do is to STOP the bad guy instantly, whether the y die or not is unimportant. You just want to quickly put yourself out of harm's way.

9mm, no matter what the bullet weight or configurations are, are way too fast to stop someone cold, they just penetrate and keep on going. You want something slow and heavy, that causes major damage and puts the guy right out of the fight.

Sure you can cap someone with a .380 and eventually kill him, you can do that with a .22, placing the shot right behind the guy's ear, the .22 is so low powered, it doesn't exit the skull, just bounces around and turns his brain into gray soup, DAMHIK.

Get yourself a .45 and stop futzing around. For the full size 1911 type, you can also get a .22 cal conversion kit so you can practice with cheap ammo, get yourself proficient, and then trade up to a Detonics or other smaller .45, for better concealment, the smaller ones are usually made of aluminum and you don't want to put too many rounds thru it (not a practice gun}.

A .45 has way less recoil than you think, I taught my 24 year old daughter who weighs about 110 Lbs. to constantly group within the kill zone from 7 yards, the distance you should practice at anyway. Also double taps (two shots) at time is what you want to really work on, and these should be from the holster, not just standing on the firing line and staring down at the target.

If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me, there are some books you should read, unfortunately I don't have time the get you the titles at the moment.

Just remember, if you ask 20 people the same question, you'll get 20 different answers. Ya gotta go with you gut instinct on who to trust, and most cops are really lousy shots (I apologixe in advance to those of you in law enforcement who DO know how to shoot.

Bruce

Just re-read "just started's" post and he know what he and I am taking about. Bet he's pretty good in a gunfight.

[Anna]

ammoman.com for purchasing ammunition online. You can get a decent cleaning kit that will suit your needs at just about any sporting goods store. Boresnakes are great for quick cleaning the bore.

God forbid you ever need to, go for the upper torso first. Trying to shoot someone (that is likely moving) in the arm, hand, etc. with a handgun in a high-stress situation is pretty much impossible - remember the "target" won't be stationary like at the range, it will be closing in on you and trying to harm you - there won't be time for precision aiming.

Be safe and good luck!

I listened to a Jeff Cooper lecture on readiness, and he said that by the time you draw your gun (condition red) the debate should be over on whether or not you'll use it. That's the part I'm having a hard time with. Of course if the bad guy knows I have a gun, he'll try to take me out first, so I can't be indecisive about it either.

It's a totally new mental outlook for me. I think it'll help if I get more familiar with guns and the sound of firing guns. I can pretty much place a bullet within 2 inches of where I want it at 7 yards. That's when I'm not stressed. When we did the draw-then-fire sequence, though, my first shots are always about 6 inches to the left. I haven't really figured out why and how, which is another reason I want to practice more.

Ammo for a .22 is dirt cheap, you might want to consider getting a .22 in addition to a .38. Sounds like you really like shooting now and the ammo price factor can make a difference. You could easily spend $30 in 1 trip to the range with 100 rounds. But with a .22 you could shoot a clip or 2 with the .38 then spend the rest of the time shooting cheap .22 rounds.

That's actually not a bad idea. I didn't even think about it since I've been tunnel-visioned about getting that Sig. I have a Derringer and a Davis double-shot .22. I showed them to the instructor, and he said they're practically useless and you have to be up close and get the bad guy between the eyes for them to be of any use at all. But I think I'll bring them with me next time I go to the range (I'm still applying for membership; it's a members-only range).