Did the flu get you?

[djkert]

WRONG! That case was a very very rare special situation in which the child had an inherited mitochondrial defect that the vaccines "may have" exaggerated. In fact, any severe illness would have had the same result. If the vaccine had anything to do with it it was not attributable to the thimerosal in the vaccine. Even the court said that.

Get your facts straight.

How do know if it is "very very rare"? A study in Portugal suggests otherwise (7% of autitic kids have a mitachondrial disorder. http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ine&aid=282214

Besides, nobody actually knows what happened with this girl. So there are no "facts". As far as your supposed facts, the girls family seems to think otherwise:

The Polings were exploring two theories about what happened to Hannah. One is that she was born with the mitochondria disorder and the vaccines caused a stress to the body that worsened the condition. The other was that the ingredient thimerosal caused the mitochondrial dysfunction, Jon Poling said.

[djkert]

RE: macrophagic myofascitis

RE: aluminum. You really should read your whole first Google "hit:"

" so far, all the evidence pointing to a link has been inconclusive."

See. Thats what I don't get. He says the evidence is inconclusive and you seem to take that as "safe". Why??? From what I read of that paragraph, he doesn't know if aluminum causes Alzheimer's.

[MilDoc]

Correct. And to quote from the study:

"Five of 11 patients studied were classified with definite mitochondrial respiratory chain disorder, suggesting that this might be one of the most common disorders associated with autism (5 of 69; 7.2%) and warranting further investigation."

IOW, it's the mitochondrial defect that predisposes to autistic symptoms. Not the vaccine. Given the "right" push autism may result. And this should answer the question of the chicken and the egg.

IF vaccines cause autism, why was ther no great rise in numbers after any thimerosol containing vaccine came into use. IF vaccines cause autism, why did autism rates increase even in countries that suspended MMR etc use?

These are questions the anti-vaccine etc groups routinely ignore.

But, enough. I am well aware of a lot of research on both sides. If i thought there was any evidence of vaccines causing injury I'd be right up there with you. I'm not. But I get tired of arguing the case. believe what you want.

What I do know is that kids don't get polio. Kids don't die from H. flu meningitis, measles, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, typhoid, diptheria, etc etc etc. I've been doing this long enough to have seen it all. i don't want to see it again. But I'm sure I will.

[djkert]

Correct. And to quote from the study:

IOW, it's the mitochondrial defect that predisposes to autistic symptoms. Not the vaccine. Given the "right" push autism may result. And this should answer the question of the chicken and the egg.

Actually, it doesn't for me and it doesn't for the Poling family. There was no sign of an underlying disease before the shots, and no evidence that the shot's DIDN'T cause the disorder..

But, enough. I am well aware of a lot of research on both sides.

So am I, let's agree to disagree as neither of us are going to change each others mind.

What I do know is that kids don't get polio. Kids don't die from H. flu meningitis, measles, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, typhoid, diptheria, etc etc etc. I've been doing this long enough to have seen it all. i don't want to see it again. But I'm sure I will.

For the record, I am not anti-vaccine. I would just like them to be safer. To many dangerous preservatives and not enough research into whether or not these things (alone or in combination) are safe.

[MilDoc]

Actually, it doesn't for me and it doesn't for the Poling family. There was no sign of an underlying disease before the shots, and no evidence that the shot's DIDN'T cause the disorder..

OK. That I have to comment on. There are a wide variety of mitochodrial and metabolic disorders that show no signs, no symptoms, until the "right push" comes along. I have seen many cases of each when I was on the faculty at one of the top 5 medical schools in this country. Some defects don't show their true identity until a child is 1, 2, or even 3 years old, then gets a serious infection that pushes them over the edge. It usually takes days and the involvement of many specialists to get to the correct diagnosis.

We are just beginning to get a handle on mitochodrial defects. There is a lot to be learned.

One of the hardest things for people to get is that association does not prove causation.

BTW, thimerosal is not contained in any modern vaccines except for flu vaccine, in much lower quantities than in the past. My bet? Autism numbers will not decrease.

[djkert]

BTW, thimerosal is not contained in any modern vaccines except for flu vaccine, in much lower quantities than in the past. My bet? Autism numbers will not decrease.

Why would it decrease??? It's not like the shot's are preservative free now. Take out the mercury and add formaldehyde, aluminum, antifreeze, etc. That'll fix everything...

That's where the medical community just doesn't get it.