Statutory rape

[Russianwolf]

I've known people who think the same way about prosecuting drunk drivers, but the emergency response people who have to clean up the body parts don't feel that way. I'd argue that "consensual" sex among young people has tragic consequences for both the individuals involved, their families and society as a whole. I've been involved in helping to clean up the mess left behind enough times to have a pretty firm opinion on this one.

Add to that the ability of an older teen to manipulate the younger one (and yes, even one year can be significant) and there is good reason for these laws to be on the books.

As explained previously, it is actually rare for the 18/17 combination to be illegal, but where it is, it is. Period. If an 18 year old doesn't like the laws of the State they live in, they can follow them while working to change them or they can move. (and we should NEVER take for granted the right to do either of those two things) But, if they choose to break the law, they should not then expect sympathy.

When my oldest son turned 18, I sat him down and made sure he understood what that meant - he was now seen as an adult in the eyes of the law. He was no longer under my protection and he needed to be aware of the law and carefully consider the consequences of breaking it. I just had a similar conversation with my oldest daughter.

When you are 17, you get detention. When you are 18 you go to jail.

And yes, a Doctor or Psychiatrist who has sex with their patients (whether they marry them later or not) should be prosecuted - and they, better than anyone know why!

The age limit for drinking was slowly raised to 21 across the nation because 18 and 19 year olds were doing damage to themselves and killing others in numbers far exceeding those of people 21 and over.

Just in case military service is dragged into this, it is an honor and privilege to be able to serve the country in that capacity. It is all about duty and sacrifice and requires the voluntary suspension of many of the rights that the rest of us take for granted. The drinking age is to military service what a duck is to a table saw (note the smooth way I bring the topic back to woodworking!)

Actually the drinking age wasn't raised slowly, it was pretty much over night in most states. Reason was that the Fed Gov said that any state that didn't have a 21 year old drinking age would receive less Fed money. My view and it holds true accross the country. If a kid wants a beer, they'll find a way to drink a beer. I was drinking when I was 15, and it wasn't that hard to pull off.

As far as the military goes. If you're old enough to volunteer to die for your country, you **** sure old enough to drink a beer.

Sex between two youngsters can have bad consequences. So can driving a car if you don't teach them how (kids in my state could drive at 15). Education is the key. They are going to be exposed to all of these things whether the parent likes it or not, failing to arm the kid with the knowledge to make a HOPEFULLY responsible decision is where the problem lies.

[Russianwolf]

One more point guys, you are talking about AGE of CONSENT.

If I recall correctly the AoC is when an underage person can consent to have sex with someone 18 or older. It has nothing to do with two 15 year olds deciding to have sex.

[jackellis]

Fascinating thread.

Let's not forget that until relatively recently (100-150 years ago), it was common for girls to marry shortly after they reached puberty. At that time, the onset of puberty was around 13 or 14. Boys married pretty young, too.

If I had kids, I'd encourage them to wait until they're older than 18 and either married or in a stable relationship before having sex. But I'd also teach them about contraception and STDs. Let's face it, we were born to eat, breathe and reproduce. Because nature made us that way, it's really tough to suppress any of those natural urges.

[crokett]

I'd argue that "consensual" sex among young people has tragic consequences for both the individuals involved, their families and society as a whole.

And I'd agree with you. When I was in high school I didn't date much, on purpose. I figured it limited my opportunities for hanky-panky which was good cause I watched 3 girls get pregant and saw a few cases of VD. Pregancy isn't necessarily tragic but it is life-changing. One of those girls es had free-ride offers to Stanford and Notre Dame. She ended up living at home and going to a local school.

[messmaker]

I thinK 18 should be the age limit on everything. It makes no sense to pick a different age for each one. I think things are too complicated.

[prlundberg]

There was a recent case near here in North Dakota, if I remember right, a 16 year old was having sex with a 14 year old. He is now considered a sex offender.

There was another similar case a few years back in ND, the teen is now an adult and unable to find a place to live due to his sex offender status.

Sometimes it just seems there's no room for common sense in the legal system.

For the record, I do not support the sex offender label and public meetings everytime they move. Makes it almost impossible for these people to become productive members of society again. I won't discuss this any further here, but somebody else had mentioned they support it, so i just thought I'd offer a different viewpoint.

[Alex Franke]

...Because your bodies are physically capable, doesn't mean your minds, senses are (sex verse marriage). If people got married at this young of age, it would just add to the divorce rate (from my experiences)...

<rant>Divorce should be a heck of a lot harder to achieve than it currently is. It really annoys me that some people think of marriage as just some trivial thing to do -- and that the idea of a do-over or "trial marriage" now seems to be par for the course. If someone passes the "I Really Know What I'm Getting Myself Into" test, then they should be allowed to marry -- and get whatever benefits or drawbacks might come along with it. Grown-ups that don't pass the test should not be allowed to marry. That'll solve the divorce problem.</rant>

...Let's not forget that until relatively recently (100-150 years ago), it was common for girls to marry shortly after they reached puberty. At that time, the onset of puberty was around 13 or 14...

This begs the question: Why is physical maturity so out of line with legal and emotional/intellectual maturity? Why would God (or evolution, or FSM, or whatever) mature us so soon before we're really ready to handle it?

I've read that kids are maturing earlier now-a-days (growth hormones in meat?), and I certainly wouldn't want any 13 year old of mine running off and getting married. But I wonder if society is artifically extending childhood overall. Maybe there's more to learn now than before... maybe they're maturing earlier... maybe ages 13-18 are supposed to test our patience... maybe we shelter our kids too much... (My daughter, for example, is banned from dating until she's at least 25. )

...Add to that the ability of an older teen to manipulate the younger one (and yes, even one year can be significant) and there is good reason for these laws to be on the books...

I've seen young teens that can manipulate circles around educated adults (I was pretty good at getting my way when I was a kid, for example, and my mother was a psychologist.), so I don't think age is really a good argument here. It goes back to my "age 18" thread -- the law seems to just draw a seemingly random line in the sand based on something plainly measurable (age) but seems to disregard any number of measures of maturity. (BTW, I'm obviously not talking specifically about sex here, so my appologies if anyone considers this post to be off-topic.)

[bluzcat]

A little off-topic, but I read somewhere that in Arizona, if you get caught for public indecency, that is considered a sex crime and you have to register as such. I don't know if any of you folks have spent any time on Lake Havasu (on the Cal/Az border), but the girls out there are not shy! And not just during spring break. There is a lot of flashing going on, and I have witnessed citations being issued. Now if a person has to register as a sex offender just for lifting their bikini top (which is pretty small to begin with), that just seems wrong. I mean, who is the sheriff protecting? If I remember correctly, it was the deputies getting booed, not the girls!

[dkerfoot]

Actually the drinking age wasn't raised slowly, it was pretty much over night in most states. Reason was that the Fed Gov said that any state that didn't have a 21 year old drinking age would receive less Fed money. My view and it holds true accross the country.

By the time it was raised by the Fed, the vast majority of States had already gone to 21. Remember that the speed limit was also lowered the same way. I am personally glad the drinking age is 21 and the speed limit is 70!

If a kid wants a beer, they'll find a way to drink a beer. I was drinking when I was 15, and it wasn't that hard to pull off.

I was smoking at 5 and drinking at 7 and smoking dope at 12. It was stupid and my older siblings, parents and all the adults in my home town let me down by not intervening.

If a kid wants to kill his parents he'll find a way to do that too. We don't create laws about things that people would never do - we create them about things that society agrees people shouldn't do.

As far as the military goes. If you're old enough to volunteer to die for your country, you **** sure old enough to drink a beer.

I spent 9 years in the Navy, the first few as an underage guy who wanted to (and sometimes did) drink, but even then I never understood how people could correlate one to another. I still don't. What does one have to do with another? Ducks and Table Saws.

[ragswl4]

By the time it was raised by the Fed, the vast majority of States had already gone to 21. Remember that the speed limit was also lowered the same way. I am personally glad the drinking age is 21 and the speed limit is 70!



I was smoking at 5 and drinking at 7 and smoking dope at 12. It was stupid and my older siblings, parents and all the adults in my home town let me down by not intervening.

If a kid wants to kill his parents he'll find a way to do that too. We don't create laws about things that people would never do - we create them about things that society agrees people shouldn't do.



I spent 9 years in the Navy, the first few as an underage guy who wanted to (and sometimes did) drink, but even then I never understood how people could correlate one to another. I still don't. What does one have to do with another? Ducks and Table Saws.

I think it all has something to do with trying to establish a civilized, lawful society rather than anarchy where we all do what we want, to who we want, when we want. Most laws are in place to tell us what society thinks we should and shouldn't do. If one choses to ignore those laws then we pay the price when we get caught and if necessary judged by our peers.

[Russianwolf]

It's about maturity.

The government has set this arbitrary age of 18 as a maturity date (as someone mentioned)

at this maturity date your are considered an adult and responsible enough to 1)vote for your representative 2)be held responsible for your action in courts 3)enter into binding contracts.

One of those 3)s is signing a contract to lay your life down in service to the constitution. I served in the Navy myself.

If you are mature enough to make that decision, then you are mature enough to decide to drink a beer. You can't have it both ways, if they aren't mature enough to be able to responsibly drink, then how can they be mature enough to voluntarily lay their life down in service? Raise both to 21 or reduce them to 18, either way it's arbitrary. My 45 year old brother isn't mature enough to drink responsibly, but I was at 15 (never drove, and knew when I should stop).

[Alex Franke]

If you are mature enough to make that decision, then you are mature enough to decide to drink a beer. . . .Raise both to 21 or reduce them to 18, either way it's arbitrary. My 45 year old brother isn't mature enough to drink responsibly, but I was at 15 (never drove, and knew when I should stop).

That's my point, actually. Don't set it to any arbitrary age (because it's only arbitrary), but instead use some other applicable measure of maturity.

You could pass the "I Can Use Alcohol Responsibly" test when you were 15 and your brother still cant. So you should have been able to drink legally when you were 15, and your brother still shouldn't.

The "I Know What I'm Getting Myself Into" test might be used to see if someone should join the military. You might be responsible with alcohol at age 15, but still might not be mature enough to sign your life away to the government for a few years...

[MilDoc]

Let's face it. Such laws have to made simple and to the point. Otherwise the discrepancies in applying any other standard would become absurd.

Judge 1: "Ah, you're 18 son and the girl was 13. Well, she seems mature to me! Case dismissed!"

Judge 2: "You, girl, are 18 and the boy was only 17! What are you - robbing the cradle? 20 years!!!"

[ragswl4]

Let's face it. Such laws have to made simple and to the point. Otherwise the discrepancies in applying any other standard would become absurd.

Judge 1: "Ah, you're 18 son and the girl was 13. Well, she seems mature to me! Case dismissed!"

Judge 2: "You, girl, are 18 and the boy was only 17! What are you - robbing the cradle? 20 years!!!"

Exactly, very well said. I think this applies to the legal age of drinking as well.

[Russianwolf]

Exactly, very well said. I think this applies to the legal age of drinking as well.

Oh I doin't have a problem with the arbitrary age per se, but just make it consistent. When you are an adult, your an adult. period. Not an adult for some things and not one for other.

Next they'll try to make it where you are an adult at 18, but can vote only if you are 25 ,have a law degree and a minimum of $1million in inherited money.