Does anyone have a "green car"?

[LCHIEN]

I'm sort of waiting to see what the wave of battery replacements coming up for those hybrids sold starting 2003-2004 will bring. The cost of the battery replacement will not be nearly as significant as for fully electric plug-in cars which will have to have batteries ten times as large.

With the expected battery costs and their environmental damage, I wonder if battery cars are really greatly greener. Yes, they burn less fuel per mile. But, they cost more environmentally to maunfacture with lead and or nickel and cadmium use. And they will cost so much to repair they may have shorter use lives than gas cars. Imagine paying $3000 for the second battery change on an 8-year old car... tough. Paying another $3000 at 10-12 years almost means the end for that car, how many of you would put $3000 in a twelve year old car?

So all my cars are in mid-life, 70-80K miles so I don't expect to have to replace them for another 3-4 years. Granted gasoline price relief will be short if any but a new car is a lot of gasoline. I plan to wait and see. We only drive each car about 8000 miles per year. so a dollar rise in gas costs me about $800. Two new high MPG hybrid would run $50-60K and give up some comfort and convenience. Therein lies the conundrum, cars cost so darn much its hard to justify spending for a new one just to save a few hundred in fuel costs. Trading them in just puts the burden of gas costs on the segment of society that has to drive used cars, also unfair in a social way.

And Jziegler, you got 25 mpg in your maxima? I guess that must be due to a 55 mile highway commute. I got 20 mpg in my '96 mxima around town and now 20 mpg in my '01 infiniti which is more or less a maxima in disguise.

[Russianwolf]

I'm not sure that I buy the Hummer vs Prius comparison, but then I would not consider either of those cars at this point anyway.

Yeah, I got the "right winger bashing left winger" feel from that blog. I don't buy either view when held to such an extreme.

That, and I used my $24k Jeep Wrangler to pull a $50k H2 out of the mud once.

Now we have a 03 Saturn Vue. It's not a hybrid but it runs about 24mpg on highway and maybe 20 in town. Not bad for a SUV wannabe. I also have my 1970 Jeep Gladiator. Fuel friendly she's not, but I've spent a whopping total of $1600 (gas included) in the last year and a half while driving her. And $200 of that was taxes/registration.

I will do my best not to buy another new car until they make deisels variants available here. Right now that limits the choices to about 4 non-pick-up models. The Grand Cherokee and Maxima being the least expensive until VW can get their new deseils on the market. I'm not too fond of gas/electric hybrids. A deisel/electric would make more sense.

[jackellis]

I don't drive all that much and so long as my 13 year old Ford Probe continues to run well, I'm not in the market for a new car. We have talked about getting a hybrid to use for short trips but I'm hoping my next vehicle will be a diesel/electric or gas/electric pickup with 4WD. We'll probably be starting construction on a second home in snow country and I'd like something to get around in that can haul firewood and project lumber. Our Volvo station wagon won't cut it.

About 6 or 8 years we sold a 1983 Nissan Sentra that had become a magnet for bad drivers after it was wrecked a second time. That car got 37 MPG highway and I am so sorry it's gone.

[JSCOOK]

My BMW is "Boston Metallic Green" ... does that count?

Mine you we bought it when I was communting and only has a 1.8L engine, so I was trying to do my part ...

[mpc]

No modern "green" cars here... just 3 old 4-cylinder imports. 2 are turbocharged to have big-engine style torque and horsepower feel while returning MPG consistent with a 4 cylinder engine dragging around 3000 pounds of car. They're great on the highway, crossing the Continental Divide (steep hills, high altitude) to visit the parents.

The other is a 30 year old Corolla hatchback - the SR-5 model. The hatch is wide enough to swallow several sheets of 48 inch wide plywood, but not MDF's 49 inch wide sheets. 8 foot long sheets hang out about a foot. Still better than many of the compact pickups... and much better MPG. I keep looking around for something that can replace my Corolla but so far nothing can swallow the same cargo load with better MPG. And it's super-reliable... an old carbureted engine. Very few electrical/electronic bits. Not the cleanest tailpipe emissions though being a carb but it does pass California's tests for its model year. If Cali smog laws weren't so "you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent" I would have swapped in a modern fuel injected engine by now... but that's illegal, or at least hard to do legally (I can't get a straight answer!) for me to do myself.

I hoped the Toyota Highlander had a wide enough cargo bay... but the tape measure said the door opening is too narrow... otherwise I'd have a Highlander Hybrid now.

mpc

[jziegler]

And Jziegler, you got 25 mpg in your maxima? I guess that must be due to a 55 mile highway commute. I got 20 mpg in my '96 mxima around town and now 20 mpg in my '01 infiniti which is more or less a maxima in disguise.

Loring,

Yes, I managed to average about 25MPG in the Maxima in the flatlands of NJ and DE, doing mostly highway driving. The biggest hill I deal with in my commute is crossing a suspension bridge over the Delaware River. I also tend to keep my speed down a bit more than most, and don't hit the pedal too hard either acceleration or braking, and coast where I can.

It's funny, when I got the Maxima in '01, gas mileage wasn't really a concern. Due to an accident that totalled my old car I needed something quickly, and loved the Maxima. Premium was around $1 a gallon then. How things change.

Jim

[gabedad]

I get 25 or so with my 2002 nissan altima 6 cyl 5 speed (240 HP) . I have a fairly heavy foot as well. Highway trips I have gotten over 27

YMMV

[dmtriggs]

It is hard to justify the cost of a new hybrid vs. the cost of an older car. Take my `93 Saturn for example. In the last 40K miles (two years) I have spent six hundred dollars on tires, maintenance and repair. At the same time, I'm getting about 30mpg and no car payment. To justify taking on a car payment for something like a Prius, assuming 55mpg from the hybrid, gas would have to hit $11/gallon and the Prius incur no maintenance fees for five years before I would break even on the new car. I'm not saying the Saturn will go another hundred thousand miles without repair, but there are always five hundred dollar 30mpg cars out there. Even if gas only went up to $6 per gallon, the Saturn would have to start costing $1800 a year in maintenance to become more expensive to own. And, as someone said earlier, this is all without adding environemental burden by junking this car and adding another newly produced car to the mix.

[JoeyGee]

I drive a ton of miles in my '05 Civic (I bought it because I LOVE palindromes, LOL) and wish I had a hybrid. When I bout it, I believe the Civic hybrids had JUST come out, and the premium was huge, if you could even find one. I was also concerned about the life of the batteries. I think I'll wait for the test of time on those.

I highly recommend the documentary "Who Killed the Electirc Car" I am not a tree hugger, and being narrated by Martin Sheen would normally turn me off, but it was recommended to me, and I loved it. It was balanced, and packed with facts. It presented evidence on who "killed" the Chevy EV-1 (others had electric cars, too). There is plenty of blame to go around.

The really interesting thing was the grass roots/garage tinkerers (although very high-end garages) that extended the life of the batteries. That was in the early 90's. I'm not saying these vehicles would replace the gasoline and/or hybrid cars, but there is certainly a market for them.

[TB Roye]

If we were both still working and comuting we would probably have a hybred or something similar. Being retired we don't put the miles on our vehicles like we used to. So I have my Silver 02 Tacoma Double Cab with 50K on it, it will probably last me the rest of the time I am able or willing to drive. It had 20k on it when I retired 4 years ago so it has a while to go. LOML has the Green Car, a 2004 Ford Expedition, Estate Green, she traded her spooky 2000 Ford Explorer for it. It has 36K on it but most of that mileage is from trips to Idaho to see the Grand Kids. That where it shines no great MPG but it is comfortable, quiet, and gives you a feeling of safety on the highway. Alot of our tip to Idaho is on 4 lane I80 but the last 300 miles in on a great 2 lane highway with not much traffic with a speed limit of 70. We pass many triple trailer big rigs on that highway the horsepower is great for passing safely. Besides LOML packs a lot of luggage and we need the room. While in Idaho the whole family fits (8) so when we travel around we don't need 2 cars. We will probably downsize in the future but as long we make long trips we will keep big car. At 70-75 the Expedition is loafing at under 2000rpm and gets about 18mpg. I feel the "green cars" as we know them are a result of being politically correct rather than doing that much for the evironment. The will probably be some truly "Green Cars" in the future as the technology improves and we wean ourselves of Petrolium.

Tom

[cwsmith]

In my opinion, there really isn't a "green" car in existance. Some may provide better mileage, less pollution than others, but I think you have to look at the entire life stream of a vehicle, from materials used, through manufacturing process, operational lifetime, and final disposal.

With all that considered, you might be able to judge which cars are greener than others.

Another perspective may be to look at your driving habits, needs, and how "green" each individual may be. One might find that metropolitans are greener than rural folks. Maybe not, but New Yorkers' generally use mass transit, don't own cars and therefore may use far less energy than say someone who lives in Kansas or California and may have to own more than one vehicle and spend several hours every week behind the wheel. I'm not saying that is the case... but it would be interesting to see those kind of statistics.

As for me, I think I'm somewhere above middle "green". I've owned only six vehicles in 43 years of driving. Though I was a bit crazy in the early years with excessive driving, my last twenty years have averaged around 5,000 miles a year. I usually walked to work about 75% of the time, and I have never owned a gas-powered recreational anything.

On the other hand, I drive a two-ton van that gets me about 20 in the city and 27 or so on the long haul. That's not very "green" at all.

CWS

[padboy]

Does Anyone Have a Green Car?

Yes to both questions. I drive a 94 Geo Metro 3cyl with 5sp and air. It gets 50 mpg highway and it is painted a metallic green. Best car I ever owned and one of GM's best kept secrets. Too bad they don't make them anymore!

[bradley_osu]

'98 Neon is green enough for me. 30-33 mpg's with mixed town and highway driving and aside from oil changes i've a. installed brake pads up front (whopping $40) and b. fixed a radiator fan electrical connection ($5 of radioshack stuff). Pretty hard for me to justify a greener car. I did however pick up a little 100cc motorcycle recently to bomb around town on. Tops out at about 55mph and gets 80-100 mpg. Plus it's fun to drive!