Fire Extinguishers

[Bruce Cohen]

For whatever strainge reason, I've been thinking about whether the A-B-C type of extinguishers I have in the shop are adequate.

Anyone have any strong (or moderate) feelings about changing to CO2 types.

Basically, all I have is wood and the usual oil type finishes in the shop. No gasoline or motor oil.

Bruce

[Tom Miller]

Interesting topic -- I've just been thinking about this myself the last day or two.

Frankly, I don't think CO2 is the way to go in a wood shop. IMO, any CO2 extinguisher of reasonable size is not going to have enough capacity to be of much good. Also, they can tend to blow the burning material around, spreading it out, which makes it more difficult to extinguish.

What I'm considering, since I have water lines running through my basement shop, is to install a spigot to replace my puny fire extinguisher. Haven't given it much more thought than that, though.

Anyone install sprinkler heads in their shop? It would certainly be easy to do, in my case. And since a fire could likely start when you're not there, it might be better.

Regards,
Tom

[Stick]

I wouldn't bother with CO2 unless you're doing a lot of mechanical work involving electrical as well. Even then, the regular ABC types will put out most oil or fuel or electrical fires if they're big enough. Also, CO2 extinguishers are not rated for class fires, or ordinary combustible materials like wood, sawdust, paper etc. They'll put them out eventually, but more likely you'd empty the extinguisher before you ever put out a wood fire. I do a lot of welding and machining and work on farm machinery and vehicles, and I only have one CO2 unit. All the rest are 10A20BC units. I have 3 in each shop and 3 in the house (wood heat) and 2 in the barn. I also keep smaller ones in and on every vehicle or tractor. Nearest volunteer fire brigade is 15 miles away and there IS no 911. Seconds count.

I bought an old fire pumper at an auction a while back, but its tank leaks really badly. It'll work if I run hose to the dugout to fill the tank, but the time that takes is that critical first minute or so. Someday I'll patch the tank so I can at least leave it full in the summer months.

[Stick]

Hey I just thought of something else. My company house here in GR originally had a 1-1/2" fire hose station by the back door. The company did retrofits to the houses and took the hose stations out and replaced them with portable extinguishers. The thought was that the housewives wouldn't be able to handle an 1-1/2" hose as well as an extinguisher. It was strange to see a real hose station in a private house.

[cwsmith]

Interesting question and I would like to see more answers, as I'm hopefully going to be setting up my shop this winter in both the basement and then in the garage when spring arrives.

But, the previous posts makes me ask, what are the electrical damage considerations and subsequent clean-up if you use water to put out that fire?

Of course I realize that if you have what amounts to be, a fast developing blaze on your hands, the use of a fire hose or whatever is going to save more than what could probably be destroyed by fire. But, I'm thinking of that probabilities of an overloaded motor, ignited finishing materials, etc. and then facing them with a water hose as opposed to a chemical fire extenguisher. Wouldn't the risk of water into other machinery, soaked furniture, wood, and such be a negative concern?

Just a thought (perhaps, misplaced),

CWS

[maxparot]

I work in a related field and was certified to do extinguisher recharging. The ABC type is correct for a wood shop. What you may want to consider is the size or number of extinguishers in your shop.
I have a 10# ABC in mine because I use my shop for automotive work also I keep a 5# Halon also.
One thing about home extinguishers. You need to monthly check bottle pressure on the gauge and turn the bottle upside down. This fluffs the dry chemical so it can spray properly. Otherwise it can clump from sitting undisturbed too long. If it clumps it isn't effective.

[Russianwolf]

From my NAVY days, Water with an oil/grease/gas fire is a big no-no. you can splash the fuel and spread it big time.

I like co2 because it doesn't hurt anything. no water damage to drywall etc. no chemical residue that gets everywhere and seems to take forever to clean up.

And chemical fire exstinguishers also have ebough pressure in them to blow saw dust/wood chips around just like the co2 units.

co2 units work if you can shoot them right above the fuel source and lower it onto the fuel. That is from my NAVY experience again (all NAVY personel are trained in firefighting since there is nowhere to run on a ship that is "safe").

Most of the systems on ship use AFFF as the exstinguisher, which is a foam that covers the fuel. It works very well, but I haven't seen a civilian equivalent to the system.

[Thalermade]

Recently purchased a twinpack of First Alert ABC extinguishers at Costco $18 i think. One for the kitchen, one for the shop. Also bought a larger one for the garage. Showed my wife and kids where they are and how to use them. A little bit irked at myself for waiting so long. I checked with the Fire/EMT instructors where I work and they said these were good basic extinguishers. And as maxparot advised, shake 'em monthly

Be safe
Russ

[cabinetman]

The one tool necessary in any workplace is a fire extinguisher. No shop or home should be without one or more. If you think the hose is close by, and that's all you need, you're wrong. Water is not recommended for all fires. A simple coding for types are: Class A - for wood and paper fires. Class B- for flammable liquids. Class C - for electrical fires. Class D - for flammable metals. Some extinguishers are multi-purpose and have multiple class markings.

Thought I would post this just for the heck of it. At one of my shops that was in line with others in a bay situation, located next to a power station substation. It was a rainy day with thunder and lightning. A car repair shop two doors down had a car being repaired out back that got struck by a fallen power line, which eventually got draped over the hood of the car and on the ground in a puddle of water and over a large dumpster nearby. The car and the dumpster started buzzing. The car started on fire in certain places and the dumpster got to a glowing red color. The fire department showed up right away, but couldn't do anything until the power company showed up to cut the power. What a sight, too bad I didn't have a camera that day.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[maxparot]

The one tool necessary in any workplace is a fire extinguisher. No shop or home should be without one or more. If you think the hose is close by, and that's all you need, you're wrong. Water is not recommended for all fires. A simple coding for types are: Class A - for wood and paper fires. Class B- for flammable liquids. Class C - for electrical fires. Class D - for flammable metals. Some extinguishers are multi-purpose and have multiple class markings.

Thought I'd add another extinguisher class to the list Class K is used for kitchen grease fires such as on ranges and fryers. You find them in most resturant kitchens.

As for CO2 extinguishers the condensation can be a problem in certain applications.

For electronic equipment room where there are big bux invested in equipment chemical zero residue systems such as FM & Inergen (just to name a couple) are used. These chemicals are non toxic when used in the correct proportions to room volume and are environmentally friendlier than Halon.

[LCHIEN]

Interesting question and I would like to see more answers, as I'm hopefully going to be setting up my shop this winter in both the basement and then in the garage when spring arrives.

But, the previous posts makes me ask, what are the electrical damage considerations and subsequent clean-up if you use water to put out that fire?

Of course I realize that if you have what amounts to be, a fast developing blaze on your hands, the use of a fire hose or whatever is going to save more than what could probably be destroyed by fire. But, I'm thinking of that probabilities of an overloaded motor, ignited finishing materials, etc. and then facing them with a water hose as opposed to a chemical fire extenguisher. Wouldn't the risk of water into other machinery, soaked furniture, wood, and such be a negative concern?

Just a thought (perhaps, misplaced),

CWS

I think perhaps you should put the fire out and then worry about the cleanup.

In the case of your woodshop, or house, the cost of dwelling replacement will far exceed the value of the contents, you need to put of the fire before it spreads to the dwelling/structure, forget thinking about the contents.

For places where the equipment is extrememly valuable (e.g. data centers, where the data might be worth even more than the computers, come to think of it) they have special extinguishing systems (Used to be Halon but even that is now obsolete) which are high dollar but do less consequential physical damage, someone alluded to those in one of the posts.

[Pappy]

I was a firefighter for 17 years. In a home/hobby shop environment you could be looking at all 4 classes of fires. Wood and paper (A) are obvious, grease fires or paints/thinners/solvents fall under liquids (B). Electrical (C) is going to be present if the fire gets into the attic/walls or if a piece of equipment shorts out. The only metal (D) that would be likely to be present might be the magnesium in some tools. If a fire is hot enough to ignite flamable metals, it is beyond what we are discussing here.

The most common extingiushers available for home use are CO2 and dry chemical types. Both are considered smothering type agents that remove the oxygen from the fire and neither are highly effective on a wood fire. Either are effective against grease/small liquid fires, electrical fires, of a fire under the hood of a car. CO2 will leave less of a mess to clean up and many of the powder agents are highly corrosive, especially if they get wet. The advantage of the powders is that after the 'cloud' removes the oxygen, the powder will settle on the liquids and give minimal protection against reflash.

No matter what kind of extinguisher you have, learn how to use it. Call the local FD and see if you can set up a demo/training session for your neighborhood.

If you have any doubts whether a fire is too big to put out with your extinguisher, DON'T TRY! Close the doors to isolate the fire, if you can do so safely, on your way out and let the pros handle it. Insurance can replace your belongings, but not you.

[Bruce Cohen]

Thanks to all for the knowlegeable responses, I guess that I was equiping the shop correctly all along. Except, there's something nifty about having a co2 unit.

Thanks.

P.S. Thanks for the tip about shaking the units, nover knew that,

[Wood_workur]

Thanks to all for the knowlegeable responses, I guess that I was equiping the shop correctly all along. Except, there's something nifty about having a co2 unit.

Thanks.

P.S. Thanks for the tip about shaking the units, nover knew that,

they make good carbonated ice cream.

[dkhoward]

As a retired career fire fighter (25 years, retired Lt.) everyone has been pretty much right on the money with their information. Here is my take and how I have my shop set up,

1. ABC extinguishers as they have the widest base of application and offer the most bang for the buck. Good advice to turn upside down once a month and either shake them or bang on them with a rubber hammer, then check the guage for pressure.

2. CO2 Extinguishers are really good a handling electrical or confined space fires. In an open shop they aren't nearly as effective. That being said, they are extremely efficient at cooling a six pack of beer but it is expensive but in an emergency, they work well.

3. I keep a garden hose with enough reach to get to everyroom in my home and in my shop and have a GOOD brass twist type nozzle attached. Our municipal water system maintains good pressure all the time. You would be surprised how much fire can be extinguished with the flow and pressure of a standard garden hose.

4. I fought fire for a lot of years and have the training and the knowledge that goes with that. I DO NOT suggest that anyone try to fight any fire in their home or shop with a garden hose. In most urban areas, the pros are less than 5 minutes away and they can do the job a lot better and safer than you can. However, if you life in a rural area or in an area where response times are long, I would have such a garden hose set up at all times. I have several fire fighter friends who have plumbed such a garden hose set up in the hot water heater closet with a water tap on the coldwater side of the supply line for the water heater. THe hose hangs on a rack inside the closet, safe from freezing and handy all the time.

5. Good housekeeping habits and good work habits will prevent 90% of the fires that occur in workshops. It is the cheapest and easiest way to prevent fires.