Crikey!

[leehljp]

Many of the people who think he took unreasonable risks got up this morning and drove to work. A large number of those people didn't wear seatbelts. ALL of these people took great risks to get to a place that most of them don't even like to go to. How many people die on the way to work every day? At least Steve took risks to do what he loved.
. . . I am sure he died happier than most people though.

I would agree that he died fully satisfied with what he had been doing.

However, unreasonable risks cost people, families, companies and organizations lives and or huge amounts of monies. Giving a life for your country or your family was the blood that the US and other free countries were founded upon. This risk is a given. But to do things tempting fate is beyond reason. He did great in his conservation endeavors. He is to be commended for that.

But to try to pet a croc that is _standing_ and facing you - Stupid, and of course his finger was almost severed when it bit his hand. He was just plain lucky then! There is NO sense, even for the sake of conservation, in doing THAT. Other famous conservationists do NOT do that. How many of the others handle snakes the way he did - constantly moving his hand around them as he holds them - without long thick gloves or with the snake at the end of a long pole, and without using a face mask when handling poisonous snakes? One almost got him on the lips. Sure looks good and it sells, but it is still dumb.

Chasing and having a 12 ft croc chase him for the sake of the camera. . . Sure was entertaining. And then his famous baby holding episode - He said his child was not in danger but a croc can jump, if this had happened and a half mis-step by Steve, he or his son could have been history. It didn't happen, but constant chances like that cannot be compared with everyday risks.

[crokett]

I am very sorry to hear this news. His wife, children and family must be devastated.

Watching his shows it seemed to me he took a lot of chances I would not take. I realize that was part of his appeal and apparently was the way he was raised. I also figured he knew the risks better than I did and at least should be better able to gauge whether something is safe. However, the news that he was so irresponsible as to put his infant son in danger was surprising.

[430752]

Loved it.

I dunno, I loved the risk taking and stuff. As far as him taking too many risks, too many chances -- Well, that was for him to decide wasn't it?

We say we're a free society, protect freedoms and all that jazz, and then we tell people not to pet sharks, not to jump into the belly of a whale.

I dunno, I've always been a little looney, but I say god bless him and every other purposeless risk taker out there! Why do you need a good reason to take a risk? Life is for the living. I also say that before you do any of that stoopid stuff you gotta make sure it involves only yerself, no one else (or at least no one that's doesn't volunteer to go with you), and you gotta realize that if you get into trouble it ain't gonna be me that saves your stoopid heiney nor should it be anyone else. And I ain't gonna subsidize your healthcare neither. With that understood, knock yerself out. Jump off a bridge, stop a lawnmower blade with yer tounge, I dunno, but enjoy life how YOU think it best lived.

He did all that. He took risks sure, but they were his to take. Why do we get to tell anyone else what they should do with their life? Of course, the kid thing was too much and I think he realized that after the fact. But you don't push boundries without crossing them once in a while.

Well, all you can say is as Frank sang it: He did it his way!

Curt J.
(Me? Other than rooting for the Cubs, I'm risk averse and wouldn't try that stuff. But I would fight to protect your right to do so, that's what my notion of freedom is all about).

[Russianwolf]

I would agree that he died fully satisfied with what he had been doing.

However, unreasonable risks cost people, families, companies and organizations lives and or huge amounts of monies. Giving a life for your country or your family was the blood that the US and other free countries were founded upon. This risk is a given. But to do things tempting fate is beyond reason. He did great in his conservation endeavors. He is to be commended for that.

But to try to pet a croc that is _standing_ and facing you - Stupid, and of course his finger was almost severed when it bit his hand. He was just plain lucky then! There is NO sense, even for the sake of conservation, in doing THAT. Other famous conservationists do NOT do that. How many of the others handle snakes the way he did - constantly moving his hand around them as he holds them - without long thick gloves or with the snake at the end of a long pole, and without using a face mask when handling poisonous snakes? One almost got him on the lips. Sure looks good and it sells, but it is still dumb.

Chasing and having a 12 ft croc chase him for the sake of the camera. . . Sure was entertaining. And then his famous baby holding episode - He said his child was not in danger but a croc can jump, if this had happened and a half mis-step by Steve, he or his son could have been history. It didn't happen, but constant chances like that cannot be compared with everyday risks.

And what about coal miners?

or Alaskan crab fishermen?

or abelone divers?

or ????????

My point is there are alot of professions that do not "save lives" at all that include what I would call "extreme" amounts of risk. Yet they do it to put food on the table.

Irwin took risks and had a TV show, but the reason he had the TV show was his willingness to take those risks and his personality. PBS is full of shows that show the animals he did, but would never make the mark that he did because they don't have the personality that make people want to watch.

I recall seeing a show recently about a guy who lived with the grizzlies in Alaska. Everyone called him nuts. Yet he lead to a greater understanding of what the bears were really like. There is also a guy who is a snake master that in one show WAS bitten by a venomous snake. He used the same techniques Irwin did in "charming" the snakes. After treatment, he went back and went after the same snake until he got the photos he wanted.

Nuts? maybe, but how boring would the world be without a few of us nuts?

[LCHIEN]

I think it's too much for persons to judge and say he took too many risks.

Humankind is full of risk takers - that's how many discoveries were made.
offhand -
all the guys who died while trying to fly...
Christopher Columbus
THe first guy to ever eat cheese (shudder)
The Curies, Roentgens, Pastuers, etc. and doctors who risked infection to find cures for deadly diseases

The world is filled with species of animals that took risks to expand their territories and evolve - how many birds died trying to cross oceans that were too wide for them? How many animals died while hitching rides on logs and flotsam to other places? Man is not exempted.

I think risk taking is inherent to discovery.

[jseklund]

[QUOTE=leehljp]I would agree that he died fully satisfied with what he had been doing......
But to try to pet a croc that is _standing_ and facing you - Stupid, and of course his finger was almost severed when it bit his hand. He was just plain lucky then! There is NO sense, even for the sake of conservation, in doing THAT. Other famous conservationists do NOT do that. How many of the others handle snakes the way he did - constantly moving his hand around them as he holds them - without long thick gloves or with the snake at the end of a long pole, and without using a face mask when handling poisonous snakes? One almost got him on the lips. Sure looks good and it sells, but it is still dumb.QUOTE]

I like it when we agree Lee

I also agree that the baby/croc thing was a mistake. The reason is, he took an infant who was most likely incapable of making a reasonable decision about the situation and put it in harms way. Like 430752 said- if it involves ONLY you, then go for it. However, in this case it didn't.

430752 also made a great point about the subsidized health care- if you F*#@ up, then don't expect someone else to pay for your mistakes.

A perfect case is a guy who passed me on the highway the other night going about 100, at 9 PM, with traffic on the road in the break-down lane. If he loves to do that, and he can find a place to do it away from others- GREAT! Have at it. However, he put a lot of people in harms way and imposed risk on them that they did not decide to take. And if when he is in a crushed capsule that used to be his car it will probably be the money of all the people he could have killed that subsidize the jaws of life, medics, and healthcare that he will need. I don't see the Croc Hunter in the same light because of it, even though I can agree that specific instances may be considered mistakes.....

I am sure there are firefighters out there too, who try to manage risks and make a mistake doing something they would tell you themselves was stupid.

The bottom line I guess, in my eyes, is 1. Asses the risk/reward for you, 2. Don't involve anyone else who is unwilling in ANY way, 3. Give it your all.

To relate this to woodworking (just for good measure), I know people who would consider the use of a table saw (and any number of other power tools), even with precautions, to be an undue risk. For us- you manage risks and enjoy the process and outcome.

[LCHIEN]

[quote=jseklund]

...
I also agree that the baby/croc thing was a mistake. The reason is, he took an infant who was most likely incapable of making a reasonable decision about the situation and put it in harms way. Like 430752 said- if it involves ONLY you, then go for it. However, in this case it didn't.

..

I have actually thought at times they should have no criminal charges for killing your own kids.
Sort of a natural way of putting the gene pool right. If a man kills one of his kids thru negligence or stupidity, why protect the other kids?
If a man decides his kid doesn't deserve to live, then he's either crazy and we should allow him to kill his kids freely to prevent passing on weak genes or if he's not crazy then there must be a good reason such as the child did not turn out correctly (companies regularly SCRAP bad product).

Yeah, it sounds cruel and bad but somehow I think Darwin would agree.

[Raffi]

God, you guys are harsh. This was his passion. How he chose to live his life, to study nature and fight for preservation. By making it entertaining he was able to spread his message. Look, we are talking about him in a WW forum. He was successful. He never put his kid in harms way. What a bunch of old ninnies.

How many children die from auto accidents, bath tubs, etc etc etc? How many are killed in crocodile farms? Sheesh people.

Steve you will be missed. Thank you for your unique perspective, and love of nature. We are lucky you shared your gifts with the world.

Raffi

[crokett]

He never put his kid in harms way.

How many children die from auto accidents, bath tubs, etc etc etc? How many are killed in crocodile farms?

Feeding a crocodile with one hand with your kid in the other is not putting him in harm's way? My wife would skin me alive (and rightfully so) if I did something as stupid as that.

You are comparing apples and oranges. First, there are many more millions of kids who ride in cars and take baths then visit crocodile farms. And there is only one I know of who was being held by his father while his father was feeding a croc.

You can take a bath or ride in a car with a reasonable expectation that you will do both safely. You can't climb into a crocodile pen and expect the same level of safety.

[Mrs. Wallnut]

Although I don't know if I agree with what he did with his infant son but on the other hand he was raised around those crocs all his life and could manuever around them. If he (and his wife) were confident enough that he would not put his son in harms way then I am sure he did what he tought was okay. I know that I watched a program one time and he was going to catch crocodiles and move them and at one point he has his daughter who at the time I believe was about 2 or 3 there and you didn't hear much about that. It was a way of life for him and his family a life that they loved dearly.

Like I said I don't know if I agree with what he did. But what about other things parents teach their kids at a young age, I am sure they teach them to do so in a safe manner and teach them the right way to do things. It sounds like that was the way the he was raised and he was raising his own kids that way.

Just my opinion.

[crokett]

Like I said I don't know if I agree with what he did. But what about other things parents teach their kids at a young age, I am sure they teach them to do so in a safe manner and teach them the right way to do things. It sounds like that was the way the he was raised and he was raising his own kids that way.

Just my opinion.

I would not question his ability to raise his kids as he thinks best. I will only say that I do not agree with one of the choices he made. Yes he was raised around animal and yes he knew them. However he apparently forgot (or ignored) the fact that these are wild animals and as such are always unpredictable. I was raised on a small farm - I know that even tame animals are unpredictable.

[Warren]

Irwin was extremely lucky over the years. While I have sympathy for his family, I hope he was responsible enough to either have a decent life insurance policy or invested wisely.

Irwin lost his respect for animals years ago and, I believe, did what he did for the rush and notoriety. He reminds me of the doofus who came up here a few years ago to "live" with the grizzly bears. He had obviously watched too much Disney while growing up. He was extremely lucky for a while, even got himself a following of Hollywood types. Got himself, his girlfriend and one of his beloved bears needlessly killed. What really bothers me is that there a people out there who laud his behavior.

Bears, sharks, wolves, moose, etc. will sometimes be very tolerant of people. But, eventually they will grow tired of your presence. If you're lucky they will leave the area. If you're not lucky, you become a toy or a meal. Irwin just pushed the ray too far and the ray tired of it.

If any of you have kids that learned all there is to know about the great outdoors watching Disney, Irwin and some of the others who present wildlife as benign, do them a favor and don't let them into the wild by themselves.

[LCHIEN]

Talk about lack of respect: there was a news article this evening about a 23-year old man in Indiana who was killed (crushed) by his "pet" 14' python.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/05/kil...ion=cnn_latest

Authorities returned the snake (still alive) to the dead man's family...

[drumpriest]

This is my last visit to this thread, but I hope that if a chunk of airplane falls off, and bounces across my lawn at the exact moment that I walk out of the door and removes my head, you all get together and blame my constant use of dangerous tools for my death. That's about the odds required for a death by sting ray attack. They have sting ray petting tanks in zoos.

Then everyone here who is perfect can talk about how stupid some mistake I made at some point was, and discuss adopting socialism because of it.

I like everyone that I've talked to on this forum, but here I disagree.

[leehljp]

He never put his kid in harms way. What a bunch of old ninnies.

I'M getting there. I grew up on a farm and we had about 100 acres of old growth woods (Wish I had them now). In cleaning new ground, we used chain saws and dynamite to get the stumps out of the ground. As a teenager, when my dad was gone to town, I loved to cut the dynamite sticks into 4 pieces and have me one good firecracker party!

Sane people do insane things too! Some more than others. Some get caught and those that don't - think nothing was ever wrong with it in the first place and are deceiving themselves.

SEVERAL years ago I read an article about Mt Blanc (Europe). A park ranger was asked what was the most dangerous aspect of climbing Mt. Blanc. He replied - the one physically fit person who starts at the base, climbs to the top and comes back down in one day.

He was asked why this was so dangerous. The reply was that immediately after this happens there will be dozens of accidents and a death or two in the next two weeks by people wishing to duplicate the feat. If He (or she) can do it, then so can I, only it don't happen that way and the weather changes in an instance.

Sane people doing insane things. Some get caught, some don't.

My take on the croc/child thing is this: The Crocs had come to recognize a big hunk of meat being held high - as a feast. Now in the minds of wild beast like the croc - Steve was holding TWO hunks of meat. Could the croc REALLY distinguish a baby in the arm versus a hunk of whitish chicken meat?

Great friendly and protective Pet Dogs have been put to sleep because they attacked a baby when it got close to the dog bowl. Can we ALWAYS expect a croc to be mild mannered enough to not lunge after a second piece of percieved "meat" that happens to be a baby?

Sane people do insane things. Some more than others. Some get caught and some don't.