A Rant About Posts And Posters

[charliex]

Dear Cabinetman

I have only been at this wood stuff for a short time. If my questions seem "dumb" I'm sorry. But that said you need to stick around here as your level of expertice is needed at least by me. Your projects are 10 leveles above mine so there is a lot I need to learn.
Thank you for your responses to my questions.
Chas

[jhart]

As others have said, I don't post replys to every thing I open and read, as I too am doing quite a bit of learning from this forum. That being said, I have noticed quite a few times that responses get off the track from the origional question or problem and wander into other areas, some of which still give a lot of info that I wouldn't have known otherwise.

This is a pretty good group of members, who share a lot of information. It's the reason I keep coming back each day. Cabinetman brings up some good points and we can agree or disagree, but that's what forums are about.

[SHADOWFOX]

I agree with Chas.. Like him I am very new to woodworking and I love this forum (I love it too much that I even check it occasionally even when I am at work) because I've learned a lot since I joined and have been inspired with some of members finished project postings especially you Cabinetman! I've saved most of the pictures of the projects you and some other members posted. I printed it and posted it in my garage/woodshop billboard and always tell myself that I will someday be able to build something like that.

I am grateful that there are a lot of members on this forum who are willing to help newbies like me. I am always nervous when I post an inquiry on a matter because I'm afraid that I would get some nasty response saying are you stupid or what. But then again it is a lot to ask here than asking a somebody in person and see the same look on their face.

[JR]

BT3Central Rave

And then, to have some informative post that has 50, 100, or 150 views and hardly any replies is beyond me. I'm not really a short answer individual, and I don't think a poster likes to see - "yep" , "great" or a 2-3 word reply. But, I guess any reply is better than none. Hey - this is a rant - remember?

Was it a long day in the shop, C-man?!

I really like this forum, because people give thoughtful answers, even to newby questions. People praise each other's work and ideas. Alternatives are presented to develop a concept, not to tear one down.

Personal relationships are built here. People talk on the phone, email each other, help each other with matters other than woodworking. Most of the long-time members have their personal information available. Some of the new people take a while to "get it", but pretty soon you find out where they're from and what they do.

If things get a little testy, the postings eventually tone down (usually) to at least an agreement to disagree. Profanity and personal attacks are left at home.

I hope you're feeling better today, Cabinetman. You're a great guy, and we like you (group hug!!).

JR

[boblon]

Cabinetman,
I really was a little shocked to see your rant. I kept reading it waiting for the punch line....but it never came.
You have a lot of experience in woodworking and I look forward to your posts as I usually learn something from them. I hope you stick around.

I think your only mistake was lumping this forum in with all the ohters. Your right in that most other fourms can be nasty places to be. That's what makes this forum so different. Most of the folks here take pains not to belittle other members and display a great deal of patience with newbie questions, and questions that are asked over and over again.

I see this as a wonderful thing. It makes the new guys feel a little more comfortable asking what they may feel is a 'dumb' question without fear of getting flamed. When I used to lurk this fourm before ever posting, this was the one thing that made me want to get involved.

Granted I don't know a whole lot because I am a newbie at this wood stuff myself, and therefore can not offer up much advice, but I find this forum to be one of the very best places on the net to visit.

Just my .02 worth.

BobL.

[Warren]

I lurked in this forum for quite a while, soaking up the good information, before deciding that this was a forum full of people free with assistance and praise. I enjoy the fact that some of the members are close enough to rib each other now and then. Sometimes a chain or two gets pulled, but never, in my experience, in a malicious manner. I finally decided that I had a little to offer along with a question or two and registered.

It's as comfortable as an old shoe. I've even been involved in a discussion or two that got a little heated, but at no time did ayone cross the line from civil discourse to meanness.

There may be other forums as close and considerate as this one but, I've not seen it. The thing I enjoy most is that there are no self-appointed experts. The members know who the experts are and never shy away from sending a poster to the member with the right expertise.

We seem to take others at face value and, on the most part enjoy their electronic company. And, we seem not to take ourselves too seriously.

On the whole it is a very civil and close knit group. Usually gentle in criticism and lavish with encourageent and praise.

But, I run on. So, all and all I don't believe there is a member here that I wouldn't enjoy spending a little time with and I'm a struggling curmudgeon wanna be.

[jking]

Cabinetman,

Thanks for the post. It's a good reminder to be as thorough as possible in asking a question (or answering) a question. I understand your frustration with forums in general. I have belonged to several forums related to my hobbies & this is the only one I still check. The people here are more concerned with someones enjoyment of woodworking (and safety) than what color of tool is doing the work.

As far as posts having high numbers of views & few answers, yeah, I'm guilty of contributing to that. I read quite a few of the posts, but, many times I either don't have an answer or can't add anything useful. I'm quite a novice compared to many of the people on this forum.

Anyway, everyone needs a good rant now & then.

John

[scorrpio]

1. If you take time to formulate a good answer to a question, kudos to you. Rest assured, it is never in vain. However, be ready for the case where your answer tells the person that his initial plan to tackle a problem would not work. He now has to rethink his approach and will likely ask a totally different question.

2. Informative posts with lots of views and no or sketchy replies? Well, those are INFORMATIVE posts. You do read magazines, watch TV, listen to radio - do you feel compelled to immediately call/write to the publisher/studio with your comments when you see something informative? You digest the info, and store it in your brain for later use. Unless you disagree, have something to add or have trouble understranding it, I see no need for comment.

3. Some posters can be very bullish on certain subject, but in many cases you will find that poster's stance on the subject to be not some empirically formed opinion (unless the poster IS a total a-hole), but rather a result of extensive experience, research and sometimes dependence on it being right. Example: I recently reworked my heating system, and I have spent quite a bit of cash and effort on using brass/bronze fittings anywhere I make transitions from galv. steel to copper, in order to prevent galvanic corrosion. I have done so after going through quite a bit of research, and because 2006 plumbing code recommends it. If somebody on a plumbing forum comes out and states that brass fittings are no good, be assured that I will slam down on his post and demand hard proof.

[cwsmith]

I didn't consider the original post to be as much a "rant", as it was a lengthy observation of many forums. I do think some good points were made and as stated, it was from the experience of several forums.

I too have a tendency for long posts, something I often apologize for. Overall, I enjoyed the post,although I admit to being concerned that somehow I might be guilty of something, if so charged.

I visit this forum at least once a day, if possible, and have been amazed by the sense of community and the overall generosity of sharing your experiences with others. It is a great "read" for me and I certainly walk away with far more than I am able to give through my posts.

So, CabinetMaker I read your post with the good intentions that I think you meant to deliver and thank you for it. Likewise, there's some good hearts and good heads behind all the commentors that stepped up to the plate.

This has got to be one of the best forums around,

CWS

[Kristofor]

The atmosphere on this forum is the best I have EVER participated in on the internet. There were a few local boards that I participated in that were as cordial and helpful, but those were generally people who knew one another (who wanted to pay long distance charges?) and were more social than subject oriented. There may be similar high-quality groups for folks who quilt, landscape, or support groups or whatnot on the internet, but compare this site to almost any other gaming, electronics, automotive, or even woodworking site and the difference is night and day.

The simple reason is: The guys and gals here are nice (makes us Minnesotan's feel at home ). There is very little trolling/baiting. I don't post too much since I just don't have that much skill/experience but for things where I have some input I'll chime in. I think most folks feel the same, but for the lurkers who aren't comfortable doing that, no problem there either they're not contributing, but they're also not hurting anyone.

I think a lot of your comments do have some validity, but the causes have been pointed out by many of the previous posters and I know that nobody here is doing anything just to irk other memebers, so deep breath, relax, and it'll be fine.

Kristofor.

[Bruce Cohen]

WHATEVER

A short and not too sweet post. And only eight words, no 12 words.

Bruce

[LCHIEN]

... I know that nobody here is doing anything just to irk other memebers, so deep breath, relax, and it'll be fine.

Kristofor.

now there's finally some good advice.

[ironhat]

No offense taken, cabinetman and replying back with and explanation/ apology was a classy thing to do. Glad you're with us -not against us!
Later,
Chiz

[leehljp]

I often get in on the tail end of many posts and I will bet my name is the last post on many - very few people read after I post - especially on posts that already had many replies. I travel a lot and am gone for a day or two. Then I am home for a week or two but gone for 12 to 14 hours.

SO, I often get in on the tail end of a post.

PSYCHOLOGY Of POSTING: I just spent the week at a personnel managers conference in Tokyo. Everyone is different and everyone takes the same comments differently. Some as negative, some as positive, and some as neutral. I think that is why we see the wide comments on this subject.

THEN there is the background to the statements that colors the comments. Personally, if I identify closely with a comment, I immediately want to check out the author. IF he does not want to be known for one reason or another, I get a negative vibe. That was a great statement of personal nature, but the writer says I don't want you to know me - then I reply negatively. It is because I am a "people person". This is personal on my part and I have to watch for making negative comments. There ARE legitimate reasons for not posting personal information.

And, my last peeve (not really my last, but for now), are the individuals who consider themselves the "final" and "only" word on a subject and feels there is a reputation at stake and shouldn't be challenged, replies with a bully attitude or requesting some documented proof for an answer.

I do not get this feeling here, but certainly do on other forums. I am also used to certain personalities on this forum and realize that it may be more of how a person replies, but certainly not the person's real attitude.


I've read answers that were totally wrong, but in responding will try to offer my opinion, not saying "You're wrong". The way a reply is worded can be confrontational.

I prefer the direct more often than the indirect. I say that because of the way some people "hint" at the answers and throw little "darts" of truth mixed in with verbage. Drives me nuts. But then again, I am a "get the job done now, we can talk inuendo later" kind of person. And LOML totally agrees with that statement about me.

The "one of the guys" attitude is apparent and may be intimidating to those who would ordinarily participate.

I often see the "one of the guys" attitudes on other forums much much more than here. ONE of the REASONS for the "one of the guys" atttudes is "how often" the comment of:
1. "USE the search!"
2. "READ the FACTS!"
3. "We JUST discussed this last month!"

YES, there are times to use those comments and I feel it is used sparingly and just the right amount here. It can be tempered with the right tone to make it less "in your face" and abrasive. I think we do a good job of that here.

I believe that taking the time to repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat the answers time and again is what makes a new person feel welcome and defuses the "click" or not "one of the guys" attitude. Another way of doing it is for the experienced poster to look up links to the previous posts and list them for the new guy. This is a courtesy and shows a big "Welcome here" to the new guy.

Telling a new guy that you do not have the time to answer something that has been aswered before is what makes new guy not want to post at all, or come back, or even be a member.

This one item sets these guys and this forum apart more than any other forum, IMHO.