Utility Bills

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Well, see, we had elec deregulation recently. Supposed to save money, never has worked anywhere else but of course it would work here. Yeah, right. Then, most of our power comes from natural gas and/or oil fired plants. That doesn't help either. TXU wants to build a LOT more coal fired plants. There goes the air! I guess fines from Uncle Sam for bad air weren't considered.

And, of course, Tx couldn't possibly ever have an income tax. So we have among the highest property tax rates in the nation! And we tax everything else out the a$$, including sales tax. Example, my license fee doubled this year, from $350 to $752, and if you smoke the tax on cigs will go up $1 per pack in Jan '07. Meanwhile the business tax laws were so full of holes many paid $0.

Time to scrap all tax systems, and make them simple, stupid!

I thought every state was energy deregulated. I thought that happened years ago.

So, give me an example of property taxes. Where do educational/school costs come from, property tax? That is truly our biggest problem here in PA is school tax which is seperate from a true property tax.
Our sales tax is 6% but excludes retail grocery, clothing and other obscure catagories such as caskets. We are not heavily taxed on renewal fees for auto or DL. Auto sales tax is 3%.
IMHO the federal tax system is a smoothly running well oiled machine compared to the nightmare this state has created. I pay much, much more in state taxs than I do federal tax. Which leads to the question, when is the Fed going to step in on these nonsense states like NY, NJ, CA, PA, TX? We are paying through the nose for property taxes but they are federally tax deductible. So therefore a property owner in NC will pay more than a property owner in PA, since the deductible property tax burden is like 1:6.
I agree with your idea of simplicity and am all kinds of behind a flat sales tax and getting rid of everything else. I am so sick of the arguement that poor people will have to pay a disproportionate amount of their income in tax if that was the case.

[LCHIEN]

I thought every state was energy deregulated. I thought that happened years ago.

So, give me an example of property taxes. Where do educational/school costs come from, property tax? That is truly our biggest problem here in PA is school tax which is seperate from a true property tax.
Our sales tax is 6% but excludes retail grocery, clothing and other obscure catagories such as caskets. We are not heavily taxed on renewal fees for auto or DL. Auto sales tax is 3%.
IMHO the federal tax system is a smoothly running well oiled machine compared to the nightmare this state has created. I pay much, much more in state taxs than I do federal tax. Which leads to the question, when is the Fed going to step in on these nonsense states like NY, NJ, CA, PA, TX? We are paying through the nose for property taxes but they are federally tax deductible. So therefore a property owner in NC will pay more than a property owner in PA, since the deductible property tax burden is like 1:6.
I agree with your idea of simplicity and am all kinds of behind a flat sales tax and getting rid of everything else. I am so sick of the arguement that poor people will have to pay a disproportionate amount of their income in tax if that was the case.

In TX we have property taxes - from three separate units in my case - County, School district, and Municipal Utility district (water and sewer) that add up to about 3% of the valuation of my property. These are deductable as real estate taxes on my fderal return.

In TX we don't have income tax.

In TX we have a 6.125% sales tax for the state, to which local entities (in my case, 1% metro (public transportation) and 1% nearby Houston city sales tax, for a total sales tax amounting to 8.125% on most everything (goods and services) except un-prepared food. We have fairly high gasoline taxes since that pays road-use/construction fees and pollution incentives.

Used to be state residents with income taxes were better off federal tax-wise because state income taxes were deductable and sales taxes were not. Thus we were paying a lot of taxes which were not deductable.
However the last couple of years we have been able to deduct local state sales taxes on our federal returns.

[coach]

A BIG problem in Texas is that property taxes pay for our schools. Yet, a very large amount of our school population comes from families that don't pay property taxes. There are a lot of illegal immigrants in our school systems, as well as a lot of families that rent MDU.

[LCHIEN]

A BIG problem in Texas is that property taxes pay for our schools. Yet, a very large amount of our school population comes from families that don't pay property taxes. There are a lot of illegal immigrants in our school systems, as well as a lot of families that rent MDU.

There's a lot of arguments either way.

Renters pay taxes indrectly because their landlords pay taxes.
Although it can be said that high density housing (apratments, cheaper homes) puts a disproportionate amount of kids per tax dollar into the system compared with high-dollar neigborhoods. (thus another form of graduated taxes).

Another factor to consider is that a lot of people own homes and pay school taxes but don't have kids in the schools because (A) don't have kids (B) kids grown up and out of school (C) kids go to private schools,
so why should they pay taxes?

The argument, whether you believe it or not, is that all people benefit from kids going to school. Ever wonder why the clerk at the grocery store, Wal mart or McDonalds has such a hard time making change? Imagine how it would be if we had no schools (or perhaps imagine how it would be if we had better schools, or perhaps better pupils ) Schools graduate students who go on to be doctors saving your life or engineers making your life easier or lawyers making your life miserable (just kidding).

There's also some benefits to illegal immigrant children in the school system,
it keeps them from roaming in gangs during the school day, it exposes them to cultural values that may other wise be foreign to them (and they will remain foreign), and it gets them education (hepfully in English) of some value to the rest of us who may one day
partake of indirectly, services that they do... live in a house for example, hopefully they applied the materials as directed because more than likely it was built by immigrant workers or their children.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

There's a lot of arguments either way.

Renters pay taxes indrectly because their landlords pay taxes.
Although it can be said that high density housing (apratments, cheaper homes) puts a disproportionate amount of kids per tax dollar into the system compared with high-dollar neigborhoods. (thus another form of graduated taxes).

Another factor to consider is that a lot of people own homes and pay school taxes but don't have kids in the schools because (A) don't have kids (B) kids grown up and out of school (C) kids go to private schools,
so why should they pay taxes?

The argument, whether you believe it or not, is that all people benefit from kids going to school. Ever wonder why the clerk at the grocery store, Wal mart or McDonalds has such a hard time making change? Imagine how it would be if we had no schools (or perhaps imagine how it would be if we had better schools, or perhaps better pupils ) Schools graduate students who go on to be doctors saving your life or engineers making your life easier or lawyers making your life miserable (just kidding).

Here in PA hi-density housing property tax valuations are incrediably low thus passing little tax burden to landlord to pass thru to the tenant. This is particularly true in the Section 8 housing where property taxs are very low to encourage more affordable housing.

I can't imagine someone would make an argument for taxing only those who benefit from the tax ie only tax property owners with children. For every child education being paid for by non-children households there are people who pay tax that don't drive, yet their taxs pay for roads. There is no way to tax only those who benefit.

As far as the education system itself, here in my state it is broken beyond belief. The legal system in Philadelphia has created a nightmare for the rest of the state. Legal cases which require millions and millions of dollars of special eduation funding in each school district. The school districts ranking in the bottom 10% of compliance with these rules are then taken over by the state to ensure compliance. Therefore in our school district we have 1 single student that requires $150,000 worth of salary and benefits because of his disablility. PA is so apprehensive about creating "special needs" schools and demand that special needs be integrated into the regular school system.
I took a look at the open positions in my school district a few months ago and ALL positions were Title I, special needs, english second language, etc. Not one math teacher. No biology, physics, foreign language (other than English as a foreign language).

[LCHIEN]

Utility rates in Houston/Katy

Here's the electricity rates being offered by the various providers...
range from 13+ to 16+ cents per KWH.
http://www.powertochoose.org/electri....asp?zip=77450

Mine is currently 14.8 cents per KWH flat rate.
I have two AC units, a 5-ton and a 3-ton for upstairs and summertime is looking to be 400-500 per month! This is the first summer I have no kids upstairs (empty nesting) so its been set at 80°-82° most of the time.

Gas for central heat, water heater, and dryer runs $15 per month in the summer and 100+ in the winter. It's been kind of mild the last few winters.

Water/sewer runs about 35-45 per month. Lower because we pay around $1000 per year in water district taxes which I assume goes to cover long term financing of the water/sewer system and plants. City of Houston water bills at my dad's house used to run $100-120/month but they had no water district taxes.

[Kristofor]

While cleaning up the bill desk today I looked at my last several electric bills. On my May, June, July bills I used 678, 734, and 906kWh respectively. This is for lighting, cooling, PCs, electronics, etc. in a ~2400sq. ft. house.

Our rates are $0.072744/kWh for "Winter usage" (first 875.8kWh in my case)
For summer use (anything above that level) it's $0.082744/kWh.

Xcel in Minnesota (according to the propaganda with my bill) generates a tad over %20 of our electric from Nuclear, %12 from hydro, %5 from wind %56 from coal (I know that doesn't add to %100).

A few of these coal plants are apparently being converted to natural gas. This is expected to cause a significant increase in electric costs.

This last session Minnesota passed a law to mandate better mercury scrubbing from coal plants, reducing the output 70% from 1990 levels. Hopefully this along with additional emissions cleaning technology stems the tide to expensive, price volatile, and foreign natural gas.

We have almost half a gigawatt of installed wind generation capacity in SW Minnesota, with lots of ability to expand (~6-8 gigawatt potential). Unfortunately today there is already a shortage of transmission capacity. Allegedly we're years away from increased carrying capacity due to the lengthy permitting/EIS process needed to run more lines. The other issue with wind is that it can be variable, if there's no wind on a 105 degree day, you don't want that to be your primary power source.

Kristofor.

[Kitten]

I don't feel quite so bad now. Our elec/water bill for this past month was $350 ... compared to about $280 this time last year. We have a 2000 sq.ft house, all electric. Our elec rates just went up 29% month before last. We also have $81/qtr for trash pickup.

[Tom Slick]

month of june:
Electricity 230 kwh $26.34
Gas 21 therms $25.24

I don't need A/C, a really hot day is 85*. my wife and I both work all day no nobody is here to use any electricity during the day time.
wintertime will be about the same but gas will be $40.

[coach]

There's a lot of arguments either way.

Renters pay taxes indrectly because their landlords pay taxes.
Although it can be said that high density housing (apratments, cheaper homes) puts a disproportionate amount of kids per tax dollar into the system compared with high-dollar neigborhoods. (thus another form of graduated taxes).

Another factor to consider is that a lot of people own homes and pay school taxes but don't have kids in the schools because (A) don't have kids (B) kids grown up and out of school (C) kids go to private schools,
so why should they pay taxes?

The argument, whether you believe it or not, is that all people benefit from kids going to school. Ever wonder why the clerk at the grocery store, Wal mart or McDonalds has such a hard time making change? Imagine how it would be if we had no schools (or perhaps imagine how it would be if we had better schools, or perhaps better pupils ) Schools graduate students who go on to be doctors saving your life or engineers making your life easier or lawyers making your life miserable (just kidding).

There's also some benefits to illegal immigrant children in the school system,
it keeps them from roaming in gangs during the school day, it exposes them to cultural values that may other wise be foreign to them (and they will remain foreign), and it gets them education (hepfully in English) of some value to the rest of us who may one day
partake of indirectly, services that they do... live in a house for example, hopefully they applied the materials as directed because more than likely it was built by immigrant workers or their children.

Good points, and I agree. I would rather have illegal kids in my class than doing something wrong by being somewhere else. I also believe that every kid NEEDS a chance to learn. My only complaints are with the way that learning is being funded, but I don't have a better answer either.

As far as bills go, I think I pay way too much. Y'all already know what I pay for electric. My water bill has been about $100+ per month, and we've been on watering restrictions since May. I don't have any leaks.... I just get charged too much.

[LCHIEN]

here's something I thought was funny.
When I signed up for my electrcity supplier (Gexa), the rate was then 13.5 cents per KWH, they stated that the electricity was some percentage like
20% generated from renewable "green" sources like wind or solar rather than non-renewable gas/coal/oil sources.

For a few more cents like 16 cents/kwh they said that Your electricity would be 100% guaranteed to be generated by green sources.

Given that all electrons are mixed equally in the distribution system, there's no guarantee that you'll even get electrons pushed by your supplier. So as long the Gexa's customers who sign up for green energy use less than 20% of the company's output generation, the company does not have to do a darn thing to earn 2.5 cents more per KWH.

I wondered what kind of tree hugger would sign up for the green energy option.

[dick541]

I guess I have most of you guy's beat. I have 2 homes, the one I stay at from sunday evening to thursday evening, and go to work from is paid for, last years tax was $398, last month's electric was 432 KW = $ 40.18. have a well and no sewer to pay, cost $240 to heat with propane last year.
Our other home at the lake where LOML stay's and works, tax last year was $39. Free water, sewer, electric, and rent. Only draw back is we only has a 50 amp service so my shop only has 1 - 20 amp line for the vaccuum and 1 20 amp line for every thing else.
dick541

[Kristofor]

<snip>
Given that all electrons are mixed equally in the distribution system, there's no guarantee that you'll even get electrons pushed by your supplier. So as long the Gexa's customers who sign up for green energy use less than 20% of the company's output generation, the company does not have to do a darn thing to earn 2.5 cents more per KWH.

I wondered what kind of tree hugger would sign up for the green energy option.

We have the same type of deal, but the extra dollars allegedly go toward building more capacity. The problem is that this generally means more wind turbines, but as I mentioned before we're years away from being able to transmit that power to where it's needed. I think if it would actually help change the mix, I'd kick in extra to move away from gas/coal plants.

Kristofor.

[beetee3]

Month of June

Gas: 13 Therms @ $0.94197 + taxes = $13.58
Electric: 236kWh @ $0.1143 + taxes = $26.97

The indoor temperature peaked at a toasty 98F yesterday and dropped down to 'only' 90F over night. I poked my head in the shop yesterday and the thermometer on the wall indicated 115F. I decided against making any sawdust.

Personally I don't mind the heat, though 98F was pushing my comfort zone. Ceiling fans and drinking LOTS of water make it livable.

[KenBurris]

$124.99 for 1250kw,- "price to compare"is 6.39 cents per Kw - gas was $52.92 for 37ccf - winter for both ranged $150 to $240 per month Water billed in May (87 days)was $115.03 -$16.25 CCF each for water and sewer -quotes - GCWW reminds you that activities such as watering the lawn or filling your pool do not increase your spring, summer or fall sewage portion of the bill! - Imagine, GCWW delivers 4 gallons of high quality water to your tap for a penny!I have @1100 S.F. 1952 cape cod with R-38 insulation in the attic, but none in the walls (concrete blockWalls,plaster over metal lathe interior,(those walls are COLD in the winter!)and need new windows --- new 92% furnace AND 13 SEER A/C three years ago