Dutch Elm Disease

[gerti]

A rather large Elm tree was just taken down in the neighborhood, and I can take as much wood as I want for turning. But:

1) Do I risk spreading that nasty disease by taking the wood?

2) Is it a nice wood to turn? I read it is very stable but has a rather pungent smell when turning. Is it nicely figured?

Thanks

Gerd

[LCHIEN]

A rather large Elm tree was just taken down in the neighborhood, and I can take as much wood as I want for turning. But:

1) Do I risk spreading that nasty disease by taking the wood?

2) Is it a nice wood to turn? I read it is very stable but has a rather pungent smell when turning. Is it nicely figured?

Thanks

Gerd

Sorry, according to this article, the diseased trees should be destroyed (I assume by burning) - if there are beetle eggs in the tree they may hatch and further spread this dreadful disease.

http://www.rainbowtreecare.com/diseases/dutchelm.htm

How Dutch Elm Disease Spreads

Through our work in the Twin Cities, we have discovered that Dutch Elm disease fungus can infect a tree in two ways. The most common method of transmission is on the bodies of elm bark beetles. The fungus also spreads from diseased to healthy trees through grafted roots.

An elm bark beetle's life revolves around elm trees. It breeds in dead and dying elms, and depends exclusively on elm tissue for food creating a devastating cycle for elms when the Dutch elm disease fungus Ophiostoma novi-ulmi is thrown into the mix. Thousands of eggs can be laid by the adult females in one piece of wood the size of a fireplace log.

If the tree died from Dutch elm disease, every beetle that hatches and emerges as an adult from that wood may be carrying the fungus. They will be looking for a healthy elm on which to feed and will inadvertantly inoculate the tree with Dutch elm disease via the spores carried on their bodies. At Rainbow Treecare, we have found that the majority of new infections, and the bulk of the losses to Dutch elm disease, are due to this method of transmission. That is why prompt detection, removal, and destruction of dying elms is so critically important.
The other method of disease transmission between elms is through grafted roots. When elms are growing near each other, their roots come in contact in the soil and graft together. In the absence of a vascular wilt like Dutch elm disease, this is an advantage for the trees. The Dutch elm disease fungus, however, can pass from diseased to healthy trees through these grafted roots and continue to spread indefinitely through a stand of elms.

When I was a underclassman at Cornell Univerity the main streets had a awesome canopy of wonderful 90-year old elm trees that graced the campus. A gift of a poor dutch famer named Ostrander in 1880 (see below). By the time I graduated in 1974, the campus had been all but denuded by the fast spreading Dutch Elm tree disease and a bad case of non-diversity of species. It was a sad time, the beautiful campus I love has taken years to grow back and is still not to the glory state it was when I arrived.

Some of the minor gifts were especially inspiring, as showing the breadth of interest in our work. One of them warmed my heart when it was made, and for many years afterward cheered me amid many cares. As Mr. Sage and myself were one day looking over matters upon the grounds, there came along, in his rough wagon, a plain farmer from a distant part of the county, a hard-working man of very small means, who had clearly something upon his mind. Presently he said: "I would very much like to do something for the university if I could. I have no money to give; but I have thought that possibly some good elm-trees growing on my farm might be of use to you, and if you wish them I will put them in the best condition and bring them to you." This offer we gladly accepted; the farmer brought the trees; they were carefully planted; they have now, for over twenty years, given an increasing and ever more beautiful shade to one of the main university avenues; and in the line of them stands a stone on which are engraved the words, "Ostrander Elms."

if they were beautiful at 20 years old when those words were written can you imagine them at 90?

[gerti]

Thanks Loring, I suspected as much.

[LCHIEN]

I was just thinking that this disease ravaged upstate NY in the 1970's its still spreading through the midwest apparently from the web references I read - municipalities are cutting down wholesale quantities of elms and even condemning trees on private property to limit the spread, and its now 2006.

[BigguyZ]

I was just thinking that this disease ravaged upstate NY in the 1970's its still spreading through the midwest apparently from the web references I read - municipalities are cutting down wholesale quantities of elms and even condemning trees on private property to limit the spread, and its now 2006.

They had to cut a bunch of elms down in Minneapolis just last year. In Green Bay, where I'm originally from, the street I grew up on as a kid used to be lined with elms. They were all cut down before I can remember, but even the house we lived in, an old Victorian style house, had 5 elms on the lot and was called "The Elms". Of course, they're all gone now...

[WoodButcher26]

I've done some elm turning, turns very nicely. The pungent smell is only when it's green, as it seasons it loses the smell. Not sure about the stability, most of the pieces that I turned did do some shrinking across the grain-one piece rather violently (exploded on the coffee table one night--durn near had to get a new dog...) Some of it has some really nice grain, some rather ho-hum. It does finish up rather nicely, though, cleans up well.

What I did when I turned the wood, was turned it green out on my driveway so I could easily clean up. Got rid of the scraps and dust immediately. Turned the bowls to a little thicker than normal, microwaved them to mostly dry, then finish turned and immediately put a good coat of finish on them. Solved the problem of any critters surviving.

[LinuxRandal]

Yet another REALLY stupid question

What OTHER types of Elm trees are there?

I've seen some growing up that were always called Elm trees. They were always considered "weed" trees. I have two next door to me, that are intertwined with tree of heaven's (boy are they NOT). Always refered to a weed, with a worse weed.

Thanks

[LCHIEN]

What OTHER types of Elm trees are there?

I've seen some growing up that were always called Elm trees. They were always considered "weed" trees. I have two next door to me, that are intertwined with tree of heaven's (boy are they NOT). Always refered to a weed, with a worse weed.

Thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elm

20-45 species of elms according to Wikipedia.

[parnelli]

What OTHER types of Elm trees are there?

I've seen some growing up that were always called Elm trees. They were always considered "weed" trees. I have two next door to me, that are intertwined with tree of heaven's (boy are they NOT). Always refered to a weed, with a worse weed.

Thanks

I think it depends on where you grew up. Some areas people love them, other area's they're weed trees.

When they're grown lining a street they do make a dramatic cathedral arch look. I tried to find a good picture, but these are all I could find:



I also found this quote while searching:

"Elm trees were the country's favorite shade tree up to 50 years ago because they were easy to grow and it spread its limbs out in a canopy. But in the 1950s and '60s, Dutch elm disease basically denuded thousands of streets east of the Mississippi River of their cathedral ceiling-like coverage."

FYI: I also found out that the Morton Arboretum is working on a hybrid version that is resistant to the disease.

Back to the OP: I grew up in a town with lots of Elm trees named appropriately, Elmhurst. All thru the 70's the city drove trucks around and sprayed pesticides/fungicides up into the leaves like the stuff was going out of style. To this day, every tree that gets cut down with dutch elm, has tags attached to the wood until the city picks it up saying that you can't take it.

[LCHIEN]

I think it depends on where you grew up. Some areas people love them, other area's they're weed trees.

When they're grown lining a street they do make a dramatic cathedral arch look. I tried to find a good picture, but these are all I could find:

Thanks for the pictures. The ones I remember were older bigger and grander and more magnificent than those even.

I found these two pictures - one taken in 1971 showing the stately elms lining a stree, and the bottom picture the same street in 1984 post-dutch elm tree disease.

[Kristofor]

I'm guessing that wood was already debarked? If so you should be fine.

I happened to grow up in Minnetonka and remember several waves of Dutch Elm Disease wiping out lots of trees starting in the early 80's. My parents neighbors probably lost 70% back then, but every year there's another 1 or 2 trees per block that end up with the red ring.

I guess I was off a couple years, From Minnetonka's website:
"In 1974 a total of 25 oaks and 26 elms were lost to disease in Minnetonka. In 1978, the peak year, Dutch elm disease killed 8,339 elms and oak wilt claimed 244 red oaks. In thirty years a total of 84,032 trees have been removed – 80,644 have been infected elms"

Give it another 50 years and you probably won't have to worry about spreading it anymore as I don't know anyone who still plants these.
For new development Minnetonka has the following ordinance: "The following trees are considered by the City to be less desirable trees. New replacement trees may not be of these species" Boxelder, Cottonwoods, Elms, Poplars, Willows

I think the tree that replaced most of these elms were Ash trees (Emerald Ash Disease coming up next). However, at least back in the 80's and 90's we were told that as long as the bark was off the wood you were okay to keep the wood for firewood (and presumably whatever else).

A quick check of web sites seems to have a bunch of disposal companies paid by cities saying not to keep the wood (my guess would be because it slows them down and makes extra work/hassle for them to make sure it's been debarked).

Here's the city of Egan's (another Minneapolis suburb) take.
"Proper Disposal of all Elm Wood - Any dead, dying, or weak elm trees or elm wood with bark firmly attached can serve as a breeding site for bark beetles. Therefore, all elm wood must be properly disposed of by debarking, chipping, burning or burying in order to guarantee that the elm wood is unsuitable for the beetles. Debarking of the elm wood will allow it to be used for firewood. "

Here's a Montana extension article:
" Wood from diseased trees which have been cut down should not be saved for firewood because the larvae (the immature stage of the beetle) will continue to mature and emerge from the cut wood. The only effective method for preventing beetle emergence from cut wood is by bark removal, in which case the wood can be used as firewood. "
- http://scarab.msu.montana.edu/extension/disea009.htm

Ah, well, long and a bit late, but maybe helpful.


Kristofor.

[gerti]

I'm guessing that wood was already debarked? If so you should be fine.

Actually this particular tree was still hanging on, with bark attached and lot's of bugs underneath. I decided to pass. Later this year they'll be taking down another elm that has been dead for quite some time with almost all bark fallen off since, so hopefully all the bugs have passed on. It isn't as big, but may yield some nice turning blanks.

Thanks for all the advice, and I join in the morning for all those beautiful elm trees that lined streets and shaded yards.

BTW I remember a TOH show where they were planting an elm that was supposedly resistant. I seem to remember that those resistant trees are all clones from the same parent tree or some such.

[cgallery]

Just notified by my village that the giant elm in front of my house is coming down. This was the first year that it really showed signs of distress.

[BigguyZ]

What causes oak wilt?? I got a log from an oak that was cut because of wilt, and am wondering if it's safe. I did notice that some parts of the tree (not the part I kept) had white worms in it....

How often do you have to worry about insects? I may stick to wood at the store if I have to deal with insect infestations. Could you bring this home and have it spread to your house? That'd be quite nasty.

[Russianwolf]

sorry my yboar s bron. aot o th lttrs won't wor.


Sorry, brand new keyboard doesn't work. Won't accept these characters ( ik,edc )

Anywho.... Siberian Elm is one of the resistant varieties.