Radial Arm Saw

[poolhound]

Somebody offered me a RAS yesterday for free. Not sure where I would put it but free tools are free tools

Having never owned or used one is there anything special that they can do that make them worth owning? As I have a table saw and a sliding CMS I am not sure what a RAS may bring to the table. The only thing I recall is that I believe you can use a dado on a RAS which could be useful for things like lap joints.

At this point I am not sure its worth finding space for it.

Thoughts?

[tfischer]

Frankly those things scare me to death

The one thing they excel at is crosscutting material that is too wide for a CMS/SCMS. This also includes putting dados in such material, such as for a tall bookcase.

Please be careful though, as if it's an older machine it probably lacks modern safety equipment. And these things have a bad reputation for suddenly lurching forward and taking fingers in the cut line.

[jussi]

Besides being able to use a dado the only other benefit I've heard of is the larger cutting caoacity over a cms/scms. Oh and they're supposed to be more accurate but I personally didn't find it to be the case. I had a large delta turret style for a while I got at a garage sale. Even put a forest chopmaster on it. Maybe I was asking too much but I never could get it to cut perfectly square. After a while I acquired more floor standing tools and the ras just took up too much floor space and was hardly used anyways. I think if you have a good tablesaw and a mitersaw already the ras isn't necessary.

[tfischer]

Oh and they're supposed to be more accurate but I personally didn't find it to be the case.

I've always heard the opposite - that with all their adjustability they were hard to keep tuned up, unlike a CMS that you just lock in to 90 degrees.

[BadeMillsap]

Want two? I have one in a storage room that has been there since I got a table saw ... Table Saw, Track Saw, Sliding Miter Saw .... I guess if you have none of these a Radial Arm Saw is better than nothing but although I used this one for several years it never afforded the accuracy I now just assume I will get.

[twistsol]

If you're crazy, you can crosscut large sheet good as in this post

http://www.sawdustzone.org/showthrea...ght=ras+terror

An RAS can do almost anything a tablesaw can do. I think one of the reasons they got a bad rap for safety is that many people bought and used them with little or no training. I've been using one since I was eight years old and never had an issue, but my dad beat safety into my head repeatedly when we were in the shop. The old DeWalt's had attachments for overhead routing, disk and spindle sanders etc.

[tfischer]

If you're crazy, you can crosscut large sheet good as in this post

http://www.sawdustzone.org/showthrea...ght=ras+terror.

Hooo-leee cow. I'm literally going to have nightmares over that. And that was posted as a 'best practice'???

[poolhound]

If you're crazy, you can crosscut large sheet good as in this post

http://www.sawdustzone.org/showthrea...ght=ras+terror

Dang that is scary. Given I dont really have the room I think I will pass on this 'gift.' Shame he didnt have a lathe going spare

[Biolite]

Since you have a SCMS, like it's been said, you probably won't find much benefit from a RAS. I have a 1950's Craftsman RAS and it's been great; the older RAS made from cast iron stay very true. Similar to twistsol I grew up with a RAS and they take some safety training to use.

[Turaj]

I have had one for many years and use it for cross cuts (long pieces) as well as dado (cross section). I find the RAS very useful for that purpose (keep in mind that I don't have SCMS) and have not had any issue with accuracy (or needing frequent adjustments).

I have never tried (or even thought about trying) to rip on it as I use my BT for that purpose.

What brand and model is it? Older Craftsman (without a blade guard) have a recall for a retrofit guard (or money back if no retrofit available).

One last point. If you decide to keep it, make sure you have an appropriate blade (negative pitch?). Regular blades make the saw 'walk' towards you as you cut.

[leehljp]

I used a table saw sparingly from the time I was a kid on a farm. The first tableish saw that I personally owned was a radial arm Sears. It scared me to death. I visualized every cut about 14 times before I cut, and I did a lot of cutting and ripping with it. But I knew where my hands were each micro second. On cross cuts, pulling towards me, I gripped the handle with a tight grip like I was in an arm wrestling match. Again, I made quite a bit of furniture with it. But I gave it TOTAL respect.

It didn't hold its settings that well, but that was good for me. I learned to check it for accuracy, settings and tightening every time. It may seem like I took a lot of time with handling it, but it wasn't that much. My instincts developed to the point that I didn't make a cut without checking the machine settings or my grip or my hand placement.

To put the RAS into perspective, I had (have in storage) the Radial Arm Drill (forgot the correct term). It does OK but the arm flexes under pressure and pure accuracy is a hit and miss proposition. It can be done, but it takes extra care and checking. Same for the RAS.

I have a DeWalt RAS that I haven't used in about 10 years. I don't have space for it in the shop.

[mpc]

A couple of years ago I was given a Craftsman radial arm saw from a friend who is now disabled and unable to woodwork at all... he was happy the saw he used to build things for his daughter many years ago, and more recently his grand children, was going to someplace where it would be used again and appreciated. And I'm good friends with his daughter and grand children - the kids are old enough to understand my shop and actually like doing small things in the shop. Recently I taught the oldest basic lathe turning and she made one of those book display stands like Peter Follansbee showed on Woodwrights Shop. She was tickled pink to know I used her grandfather's former saw to cut the starting workpieces to length.

I have an early model BT3 and a 10inch CMS though the CMS is at a different house right now for new trim and baseboards. The CMS is on one of the original Ridgid folding MSUV carts. I found the radial saw quicker and easier to use though since it's always set up in my shop... the MSUV with the CMS was always folded and, set up for use, it takes a fair bit of space. Less space to store, more space to use, than the radial arm saw. Like Lee noted, I always double-check tool settings; I have a set of drafting triangles in the shop specifically for 90 and 45 degree checks. This old Craftsman saw has a bit of wear so the 90 degree detent is sloppy... but the locking mechanism works fine so once I use the triangle to set the angle and then lock it, the angle stays put. It's nice to have a separate cross cut saw when the BT3 has the dado stack loaded. I leave a quality blade in the RAS most of the time just for this reason. It's also better for crosscuts on long workpieces compared to the BT3; the RAS or CMS are probably equally good/easy in this regard.

For dados, the RAS lets you see the alignment just before the cutting actually begins. Since the blade rotation makes a RAS want to self-feed, a wide dado cut can be a handful to control: you pull on the RAS carriage to start the cut and then have to push to keep the blade from racing across the workpiece. Can be intimidating. A "negative hook" angle saw blade reduces the self-feed tendency on a RAS so that's what I use. Negative hook angle blades are often recommended for CMS use as well. I don't have a negative hook angle dado stack (anybody ever hear of such a thing?) so I don't actually do many dado cuts on the RAS... I feel safer using the BT3 or a router on large workpieces. A stopped dado is much easier on the RAS compared to table saw. I also get more consistent dado depths using the RAS compared to my BT3.

Using one of those large square plastic dust-collecting funnels behind my RAS results in pretty effective dust collection. I made a small wooden shelf that slips between the RAS table and the metal body of the saw to hold it - no alterations to the RAS itself were needed. I wouldn't be able to do anything similar to my CMS on the MSUV so it's a much messier tool.

For miter cuts, I get pretty good accuracy with either the RAS or CMS. For bevel cuts, adjusting the RAS is more difficult so the BT3 or CMS gets those cuts. The RAS is also significantly quieter. As others have noted, the RAS can use all sorts of accessories such as attachments to use router bits... but a basic router works so much better.

Like so many tool decisions, the question "is a RAS worth it for me?" depends on the type of projects you do or envision. A RAS or CMS work fine for miters & crosscuts; the CMS is easier to use but the RAS has more capacity. How often do you wish your CMS was larger? If rarely, then the RAS is probably going to be a space-waster for you. If the CMS is frequently too small, and you resort to a table saw or other means, the RAS might push the CMS out of the shop. Frequent bevel cuts or compound miter cuts? The CMS tends to be easier when it comes to accurately setting the bevel angle. My CMS has been on baseboard duty for almost two years now and I don't really miss it thanks to the RAS.

mpc

[woodturner]

Having never owned or used one is there anything special that they can do that make them worth owning?

In the "fully equipped" shop, the table saw is used for ripping and the RAS for cross cutting. Table saws can be used for crosscutting for short pieces, but longer pieces tend to be problematic. The RAS can be used for ripping, but there is a limit to the cut width.

The CMS does partially replace the RAS for small pieces, but does not give the quality of cut an RAS can - a larger machine with more mass or better design will generally give a better cut than a smaller, lighter portable machine.

What is the brand of the RAS? Craftsman RAS made in the 1980's and later, characterized by a metal dowel as the guide surface on the side of the arm, cannot be made to cut well without a lot of rework. The DeWalts and Rockwell industrial RAS of essentially any vintage work very well, and the Ryobi's work pretty well. I have a Ryobi and a DeWalt, and am very happy with them both.

As others have said, though, the issue is really the capacity you need. If a $100 CMS will meet your capacity needs, the improvement with a good RAS is probably not work the space.

[twistsol]

My dad taught me to pull the saw all the way forward, place the piece to be cut behind the blade and push the RAS head through the cut thus eliminating the issue of the saw trying run forward. It took me years to understand why some people had an auto return installed on an RAS until I realized they were using it backwards from the way I learned. The blade guard on the RAS rotates so the back of it should be a tiny bit above the surface of the board to prevent it from raising up when the cut starts.

He also put a hold fast on the longest offset side to keep the board from moving.

[JimD]

If you like your sliding miter saw then you may not have a lot of use for a RAS. Some will even maintain a constant distance up so they can be used to cut tenons on long boards with lots of passes. I put a little 1/4 dado setup on my Ryobi RAS to do this. I also use it to crosscut things my non-slider 12 inch CMS won't cut. It's good to about 8 inches and the RAS will go a little over 12. I don't do angles on my RAS but I used to. It will do it but it's a lot easier to adjust the CMS. One thing I like about my CMS/RAS combination is I can put them closer to the wall than any slider I've seen. My Ryobi will also flip over and take a router bit. I've tried it but it didn't work well. Maybe it would with a really light cut.