Tell me about lathes

[Cochese]

One of the goals I had with redesigning my workshop was to fit a small lathe, and I'm about at that point. Since I don't have much room I'm looking at a mini/midi. Either it will sit on my bench when I'm using it or I will find enough room for a stand. I suppose if I want to lift it all the time I could use it on the saw extension.

Being aware of HF's hit or miss quality, I was thinking about the 65345. Also the Craftsman 21752, Rikon 70-100. I think the Jet is a bit more than I want to spend on something I'm not sure I'll enjoy.

As to what I'd like to do, I'd obviously like to turn a pen or two. Pepper grinders, tool handles, small bowls.

[phrog]

I have the HF 34706, a larger lathe than what you are talking about. I was told that anything that can be done on a smaller lathe can also be done on the larger lathe but not vice versa. I'm glad I bought the larger lathe over the midi lathes because there are occasions when I want the larger size.

I opted for this lathe because of the recommendations on this site. I love it. I did not know if I would like turning but immediately found it is great fun.

One thing to look for is the Morse taper #2. There are many more accessories for this than for the Morse #1. Also, the heavier the lathe (cast iron vs pressed metal) the less vibration you incur.

An extra for the HF model that I bought is the ease of changing speeds. I find this to be a great plus.

Let it be known that the price of the lathe is just the beginning down a long and expensive road. (Read turning tools - you never have enough - ,pen accessories, steady rests, special chucks, and on and on and on -

Edit: I reread your post and realize you said you don't have enough room for a std size but IMHO the advice on the Morse tapers still holds true as does the cast iron vs pressed metal and variable speeds if these are available in the smaller lathes.

[mpc]

Phrog's advise on looking for Morse Taper 2 is spot-on. Some of the Midi lathes use MT1. Also, look at the thread pitch and size on the drive spindle. 1 inch 8 TPI is pretty common; 1 1/8th inch is as well. Plenty of aftermarket accessories & adapters for those. Other spindle sizes might limit where you can find accessories. (even worse than router guide bushing compatibility - is it Porter Cable compatible or not?)

Not long ago I snagged the Delta Midi lathe on clearance from Rockler for $250. I didn't plan on buying a lathe but at that price I couldn't pass it up. I also found a set of basic turning tools (a Sorby set) on clearance for about 40% the normal price as well so I was able to get started "playing around" right away. I ended up going back for the lathe bed extension just to have it.

Lathes are not particularly light/portable, even the midi lathes. At least not the cast iron ones. I wouldn't want to have to lug it out every time I planned to use it. Plus, the turning tools are rather long & fragile, there are numerous accessories that will eventually accumulate, etc... it's nice to have the lathe on a dedicated stand with storage. From what I've read, and when talking to folks at the local woodworker stores (I'm lucky enough to have a Rockler and Woodcraft close) you want the lathe tool rest at about the same height as a typical workbench and/or even with your elbow when standing with your arms hanging straight down... so putting the lathe ON the bench can put it a little high. The first time I used my new Delta that's what I did and it worked fine. At least for the hour or two I was playing around. I don't know if it would have been an issue for longer turning sessions. Now that the lathe is on a dedicated - and lower - roll-around storage cabinet I do find it a little easier to control the tools and hold them at the correct angle. Though it's a little harder to see - when the lathe was on the workbench it was about 8 inches closer to my eyes.

Things to look at/for when evaluating a lathe:
1: run the tailstock close to the drive spur. Ideally the points line up perfectly. And they should stay in line as the tailstock moves along the bed. Otherwise you get oval cross sections in your work. Good machining during manufacturing is required here. Also, the tailstock typically rides in a slot in the bed to keep it lined up. How much "slop" is there - i.e. can the tailstock be rotated at all before it's locked down? If so, it'll be difficult to get perfectly round turnings.

2: Tool rest: some lathes come with short and long tool rests. Long ones are handy most of the time but, if you are turning small stuff, you need a shorter one that'll fit between the drive and tailstock assembly. See how solidly built the tool rest appears too: is it cast pot metal or welded up pieces & then machined? Dropping a tool rest is not uncommon... cheap ones will shatter or break at the "T" junction. The upper surface should be perfectly smooth so your chisels/cutters will slide evenly across it. You can always file a bad one... but to me that's a sign of a too-cheap lathe.

3: A few midi lathes include indexing heads. Basically, that means there is a metal disk inside the drive assembly with evenly spaced holes and a metal pin that'll lock into one of those holes. This freezes the workpiece... move the index to the next hole and you've moved the workpiece a precise amount. Indexing heads are common on big lathes but not as common on the midi lathes. Have you seen jigs for holding round/tapered table legs underneath a router so you can route flutes into them? Then turn the workpiece some amount and lock it in again? That's basically what an indexing head does. Also, if you need to mark the workpiece lengthwise an indexing head will hold it for you, leaving both hands free for marking or other work.

4: Many large lathes will allow the entire headstock assembly to rotate so the drive spur can be aimed away from the lathe bed. This allows large diameter things to be turned - like big plates - assuming they can be held only by the drive spur/plate assembly without the tailstock. This also requires a tool rest support that can be moved away from the lathe bed. Few (any?) midi lathes can do this so you'll never be able to turn anything larger in radius than the drive center to bed distance. Just something to consider. Just like drill presses, bandsaws, etc. there is a maximum workpiece size (radius/diameter) to consider when choosing a lathe. Most midi lathes have a working radius of 5 to 6 1/2 inches.

5: is a bed extension available for whatever midi lathe you are considering? Even if you don't think you'll need/want one immediately it's nice to have the option in the future. Note that some of the Rikon midi lathes have extensions available and others do not from what I understand.

6: electronic variable speed and/or reversing: my Delta is the version without the electronic speed control - I have to move a belt to 1 of 5 potential positions. It turns out it's quite easy to do - easier than a table saw blade change! Surprisingly easy so I don't miss the electronic speed control at all. Many lathes with electronic speed control only vary the speed over a small range with the electronics; you still have to move the belt for larger speed changes anyway... so I don't consider this a must-have feature. Being able to reverse the direction might be nice for final sanding; I don't have experience with that. I've read magazine articles saying it's really nice and have seen articles saying it buys nothing.

One of the woodworking magazines ran a comparison test of midi lathes a while back. They noted the Rikon's motor ran cool unlike all others which bodes well for motor life. My Delta doesn't get hot though. Warm yes, hot no. Cleaning shavings from around the motor and from it's cooling fins is a pain though - lots of nooks and crannies in there. I've looked at a few other brands and all look like they'd have this same cleaning issue. I've found the only way to really get it clean is to use a blower - not a vacuum.

I'm certainly no expert turner; I've had my Delta just a couple months so far. But that's what I've learned reading, talking to others, and just eyeballing tools for eons. As with so many of the China/Taiwan built stuff, you'll see virtually identical midi lathes from multiple manufacturers. If I remember correctly, one of the Jet units looks like it came from the same tooling as an HF model... except the Jet includes the indexing feature.

mpc

[durango dude]

I have a ShopSmith Mark V - a multi-purpose machine (including Lathe).
I picked mine up for $250. Depending on where you live, you can pick these units up for fairly
decent prices. It's a common story: Someone gets a romantic idea about woodworking, buys a Mark V, uses
it 3-4 times, then parks it ---- selling it 10 years later when they're moving. At that point - they just want to sell it.

Have turned a few things with the Lathe, and would have to say that I like it.

Only thing I did was swap out the tailstock for a live center. It was easy, since the SS uses #2 MT (another plus)

I like the unit for the following reasons:
- it was easier to find than a real lathe. People buy and sell SS units all the time.
- Speed adjusts easily
- It was easy to change out the tail stock, since it uses standard engineering
- It was about the same price as a serious mini lathe - and it has greater capacity.
- Most Mark V units will come with turning chisels (mine came with a nice set of Miller Falls chisels - worth $100 by themselves)
- It's easy to move around (unlike a generally stationary mini-lathe ---- the SS is on wheels, so I can move it around).

That said - I've looked at a pen turning lathe at Penn State Industries more than once and thought, "Maybe I should get one....." The Turncraft Commander starter set is right in your price range (and it includes lots of fun stuff). From what I've seen, though - reviews are mixed.

My neighbor loves his Woodtek lathe (woodworker's supply). He's a semi-pro craftsman - so it gets a lot of use.

[dbhost]

What you mention about HF lathes holds true for the stamped steel lathes, but the cast iron bed machines are more or less the same quality as comparable machines with the same specs... A couple of caveats however...

#1. Whatever lathe you get, make sure you get one with Morse Taper #2. This is more or less "the standard size". There is stuff for MT#1, but it is far less than for MT#2.

#2. Once you start turning on a smaller lathe, you will get hooked, and you may end up wanting to turn spindles, table legs and such, a bench top lathe won't do that... If there is any way you can arrange things to squeeze in a full size lathe, the #34706 being about the smallest size in that range to do the job...

#3. With your lathe, you will want the following items.
- Chuck. If you are wanting to turn bowls, hollow vessels etc...
- Turning chisel set. I started with the Penn State "Benjamin's Best" 8pc set. Good low cost set to learn on.
- Sharpening station. An 8" bench grinder with white oxide wheels, and a grinding jig works great.
- Faceplate. I need to buy a second one so that I can make a...
- Shop built disk sander jig so you can use your lathe as a disk sander.

[phrog]

6: electronic variable speed and/or reversing: my Delta is the version without the electronic speed control - I have to move a belt to 1 of 5 potential positions. It turns out it's quite easy to do - easier than a table saw blade change! Surprisingly easy so I don't miss the electronic speed control at all. Many lathes with electronic speed control only vary the speed over a small range with the electronics; you still have to move the belt for larger speed changes anyway... so I don't consider this a must-have feature. Being able to reverse the direction might be nice for final sanding; I don't have experience with that. I've read magazine articles saying it's really nice and have seen articles saying it buys nothing.
mpc

The speed control on the HF model I have is mechanical in that it is a Reeves drive system. It is continuous from the slowest speed to the highest. There are no electronics involved. The con is that it eats belts.

As with so many of the China/Taiwan built stuff, you'll see virtually identical midi lathes from multiple manufacturers. If I remember correctly, one of the Jet units looks like it came from the same tooling as an HF model... except the Jet includes the indexing feature.
mpc

The HF 34706 looks identical in technical drawings to those of the Jet 1236 except that the HF lacks the indexing feature which the Jet has. (Also, the switch is in a different place).

[phrog]

What you mention about HF lathes holds true for the stamped steel lathes, but the cast iron bed machines are more or less the same quality as comparable machines with the same specs.

I agree. I was just repeating what I had been told about comparing cast iron to pressed metal - the cast iron is heavier (guess it depends on the kind of pressed metal ) and therefore, doesn't "dance" as much.

[jdon]

With limited shop space and intended use, IMHO CocheseUGA is looking in the right direction.

A few months ago I got a Craftsman 21752 on closeout, and have been very pleased with it (I'm totally new to turning). It's large enough and powerful enough for my current and foreseeable needs: spindle and small face turning. Other than size, it has most of the amenities of the big boys: cast iron bed, MT#2, indexing, and dead-on tail stock alignment, and bed extension capability if I ever need to turn long spindles. No reverse or headstock rotation.

It appears that the 21752 is a rebadged Rikon, although speed settings are slightly different (?different pulley configuration?). I don't know anything about the HF midi.

Unless you want a workout, consider even these midi's as semi-portable: ~90 lbs. But as others have noted, the heft of cast iron adds stability. I wouldn't consider lighter weight units.

I figure that if my needs outgrow the 21752 (Rikon), I can unload it easily on CL. In the meantime, it's a well built machine that isn't too intimidating for a newbie.

[Cochese]

A wealth of information here, I greatly appreciate it.

I'm going to do some mild rearranging in the shop tomorrow (if possible) and see what kind of room I can free up. It may be possible to make enough room for the larger HF model, which seems like the one I need to buy if at all possible. Buying the smaller one makes more sense on the surface, until I realize that I'd need to buy or make a stand for it - my surface area is small enough as it is.

[mpc]

To make stuff fit/usable in a small space all of my benchtop tools are on wheeled cabinets; all large tools are on mobile bases. A lathe is pretty unique in that workpieces have a maximum size and always face the same direction (unlike a table saw with long/wide rip cuts or long/wide crosscuts) so the tool+workpiece footprint is pretty much the same as the lathe itself. The only exception is if you get a lathe with a rotating headstock, then the workpiece may "hang over" one side. That means a lathe is a good candidate for a long wheeled cabinet that can be shared with other tools: grinders, mortise machines, small drill press, even a small bandsaw since it's work table will probably be higher than the lathe, etc. Put the lathe along the back of the cabinet, facing backwards with the headstock right on the edge (so that when the headstock is rotated the workpiece hangs past the cabinet), and the other tools get put on the other long edge. Just wheel it around so that whatever tool you need/want is usable.

Most of my tools are usable in their usual parking places; only when I have larger workpieces do I have to wheel the tool to the shop center to get elbow room. It's not that bad a compromise. The table saw is the one that gets moved the most - it pretty much always has to be "shop center" to be used; it's parking spot is along a wall where it's almost useless. I just don't have a good open area to park it most of the time.

mpc

[phrog]

To make stuff fit/usable in a small space all of my benchtop tools are on wheeled cabinets; all large tools are on mobile bases. A lathe is pretty unique in that workpieces have a maximum size and always face the same direction (unlike a table saw with long/wide rip cuts or long/wide crosscuts) so the tool+workpiece footprint is pretty much the same as the lathe itself. The only exception is if you get a lathe with a rotating headstock, then the workpiece may "hang over" one side. That means a lathe is a good candidate for a long wheeled cabinet that can be shared with other tools: grinders, mortise machines, small drill press, even a small bandsaw since it's work table will probably be higher than the lathe, etc. Put the lathe along the back of the cabinet, facing backwards with the headstock right on the edge (so that when the headstock is rotated the workpiece hangs past the cabinet), and the other tools get put on the other long edge. Just wheel it around so that whatever tool you need/want is usable.

Most of my tools are usable in their usual parking places; only when I have larger workpieces do I have to wheel the tool to the shop center to get elbow room. It's not that bad a compromise. The table saw is the one that gets moved the most - it pretty much always has to be "shop center" to be used; it's parking spot is along a wall where it's almost useless. I just don't have a good open area to park it most of the time.

mpc

I put my HF lathe on a universal mobile base similar to this one:

http://www.cpodeltamachinery.com/delta-50-345-universal-mobile-base/dwwn50-345,default,pd.html?ref=googaw&kw={keyword}&gclid= CPiXvcKGkbcCFQVU4AodsCgAUg&keyword=delta+universal +mobile+base

and move it to the opening left when the garage door is lifted. I bought one at HF for $7.00. (If you go this route, use STONG wood such as oak to prevent sagging.) The only downside to this is if you do face-plate tuning, you need to weigh the lathe down to minimize vibration. (I put two shelves on my lathe stand and the base to load sandbags on to weight the lathe down after it is moved.) You also have to be a good driver to get this thing in place. mpc's recommendation is a good one.

[Cochese]

Most of my tools are mobile, in some regard. The only thing that would take a lot to move is my bank of cabinets along the left wall. The workbench, drill press and bandsaw don't have wheels, but can be moved. Everything else is on wheels.

I moved a couple of things around yesterday. It looks like it will be possible to fit the bigger HF lathe by moving the saw to the very front of the shop, using the bench as an outfeed longitudinally and using the router table as the saw extension table, which is what I planned to do anyway. If it works, I'll have full access to both vises on the bench, the ability to cut 10' lengths on the saw, still have a full router table and reasonable access to the rest of the tools. We'll see. I'm going to move the bench this week and see what the reality is. I'd put the lathe and the bench back-to-back, but it would interfere with the saw. The jointer will go there instead, and can be wheeled out of the way.

I've looked at the Benjamin's Best set @ PSI. Any thoughts on the Bodger set @ HH?