Honing Guide

[woodturner]

No disagreement, for a lot of amateurs and hobbyists the edge achieved with a guide will be good enough, for the blades that can be sharpened with a guide.

For me, I need the greater precision and flexibility achievable with hand methods. I sharpen moulding plane blades, carving tools, and other blades that a honing guide can't handle. That's the primary reason I (and most pros) use hand methods, though the faster speed achieved with hand methods is a secondary benefit.

If you are happy with the edge you can achieve with a guide, there really is no reason to progress to hand methods.

[cabinetman]

No disagreement, for a lot of amateurs and hobbyists the edge achieved with a guide will be good enough, for the blades that can be sharpened with a guide.

That basically is what this thread is supposed to be about.

For me, I need the greater precision and flexibility achievable with hand methods. I sharpen moulding plane blades, carving tools, and other blades that a honing guide can't handle. That's the primary reason I (and most pros) use hand methods, though the faster speed achieved with hand methods is a secondary benefit.

Post some pictures of the work you turn out. I don't recall seeing any as of yet.

If you are happy with the edge you can achieve with a guide, there really is no reason to progress to hand methods.

Beginners start out free hand as I did over 40 years ago. I do woodworking for a living, and continually maintain edged tooling. Most pros...those that do woodworking for a living use guides and use freehand methods. Whether free hand is faster likely depends on who is dong the sharpening. For those edges that work well with a guide, you might give a guide a try for yourself.

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[woodturner]

I do woodworking for a living, and continually maintain edged tooling.

I think most of us have seen the pictures you posted and are aware of the quality of work you do.

Most pros...those that do woodworking for a living use guides

I'd be interested to read the citation for that statistic. It's interesting to note that many industries such as veneer mills maintain their blades by hand because they can get them sharper that way.

Since you indicated you are a pro honing guide user, perhaps you would care to share your methods for crowning a plane blade or sharpening a moulding plane iron or router bit with a guide.

[cabinetman]

It's interesting to note that many industries such as veneer mills maintain their blades by hand because they can get them sharper that way.

If you were in the trade, you would be well aware of what methods professionals use.

Since you indicated you are a pro honing guide user, perhaps you would care to share your methods for crowning a plane blade or sharpening a moulding plane iron or router bit with a guide.

Some tooling can be done with a guide and some not. Your being an amateur doesn't mean your work isn't worthy. There are some very talented amateurs and hobbyists on this forum. With the precision you demand, I would expect you would be proud to post pictures on this forum.

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[chopnhack]

Like I said I can do it by hand, but have never used a guide. My thought is that by using a guide, a more precise angle can be attained and thus a more perfect geometry of planes. The sharper the intersection, well the sharper the plane, lol the egde is just plain sharper! Adding the microbevel usually just takes me a stroke or two, but again I think it will be a time saver once a jig is made to establish the length to set the distance at. Then the primary bevel can be made real fast. I'll do some testing and let you know. Most of my work has been in pine and plywood so a really sharp edge is a necessity for me.

[woodturner]

If you were in the trade, you would be well aware of what methods professionals use.

That's why I mentioned the veneer mills, to share information on methods used in industry. If you are interested about pro use of hand methods, a couple of references for you:

Hillier, James; , "On the Sharpening of Microtome Knives for Ultra‐Thin Sectioning," Review of Scientific Instruments , vol.22, no.3, pp.185-188

Keeping the Cutting Edge: Setting and Sharpening Hand and Power Saws
By Harold H. Payson

Hjorth, Herman. "Principles of woodworking." Principles of woodworking.

Albers, T. "Sharpening Machines." FINE WOODWORKING 182 (2006): 38.

I generally don't say I am "in the trade", since that suggests carpentry, cabinetry, and other construction/builder grade work to some people. My work is mostly period reproductions and repairs, with a little woodturning thrown in.

Your being an amateur doesn't mean your work isn't worthy.

Reminds one of the old joke about what happens when we "assume".

While "amateur" is a term applied to those who do the work for love rather than money, sometimes they can devote more time to their craft to produce higher quality results than many pros can afford. When I do work for certain museums and wealthy individuals, they do pay me a more than fair price for the work, but I'm not sure if they think of me as a "pro" or not.

With the precision you demand, I would expect you would be proud to post pictures on this forum.

I have posted pictures of work done for myself, but because of the nature of most of my paid work and the clientele, they demand confidentiality. My work is on display in museums in DC among other places, if you are that interested in seeing more of my work.

[woodturner]

Like I said I can do it by hand, but have never used a guide. My thought is that by using a guide, a more precise angle can be attained and thus a more perfect geometry of planes.

On a flat blade such as a bench plane iron, the goal is to get a straight edge. A guide makes that process easier, but some "skill" is still required. For example, if pressure is not applied evenly to the guide, the edge will be a little canted. That is also one way of crowning a blade using a guide - the pressure is varied slightly on the last couple of strokes.

With freehand methods, the body can be used as a "jig" to get similar results, but it definitely takes some practice. For flat blades, guide vs freehand is largely immaterial, in my experience.

The sharper the intersection, well the sharper the plane, lol the egde is just plain sharper!

Yes, the goal is to have a perfectly flat back and a perfectly flat bevel, so that the intersection at the edge has no thickness, creating a perfectly sharp edge.

Adding the microbevel usually just takes me a stroke or two, but again I think it will be a time saver once a jig is made to establish the length to set the distance at.

If you find you like using the guide, you could either mark the guide or make a simple wood block fixture to assist in setting the blade for the micro bevel.

Another option is to use a hone. The one I use has four leather strips on a block with a handle, each of which is charged with a different grit compound. Two strokes with each side is enough to produce the micro bevel. The last strip has no grit and produced a polished edge. The leather provides a little "give" to adapt to the actual edge if it isn't quite "perfect".

[Carpenter96]

Professional- Someone who professes an oath to whatever. Everyone should use whatever method works for them. I would not recomend that every one do something a certain way. This morning we were disscusing the people that are in the pins first camp and the tails first group. They both insist their way is the only way. The most important thing is that sharp tools are the way to go, be they affordable (cheap) or expensive. I make my living in the trades. Restoring antique mahogany lanches (1890s-1940s) Custom furninture and rough construction work. Some tools require a guide and some don't, for me. Some people use a guide and some don't. Encouage people in the craft. Regrads Bob

[cabinetman]

I'd like to apologize to chopnhack for getting off the specific topic of honing guides. Some of the discourse seems related.

That's why I mentioned the veneer mills, since you are apparently unaware of the methods used in industry and the profession and don't seem to have support for the opinion you posted. If you are interested about pro use of hand methods, a couple of references for you:

Nope...not interested. I don't find a need to support my opinion.

I generally don't say I am "in the trade", since that suggests carpentry, cabinetry, and other construction/builder grade work. My work is mostly period reproductions and repairs, with a little woodturning thrown in.

Maybe we can arrive at a suitable term for what you and many other amateurs do. While it involves woodworking, or wood repairing, it's non specific. If you were a professional, in describing your scope of abilities and limitations, being "in the trade" infers a professional level, IMO. It's a common way of generalizing. It's how one perceives the terminology.

You perceive some aspects of woodworking all grouped by the term "trades". There's no disrespect to any "carpenters", as at one time all woodworkers were considered carpenters. They built homes, and built furniture. What they were in fact were craftsmen.

While "amateur" is a term applied to those who devote more time to their craft to produce higher quality results than many pros can afford, due to the time required, most people don't consider it a derogatory term.

I don't consider it derogatory either. It's just a term that applies to someone that doesn't earn a living from the work. The term "hobbyist" seems to entail a more specific effort, including a term like crafts.

Perhaps I will ask my clients sometime if they consider me to be a "pro". All I can say is that when I do work for certain museums and wealthy individuals, they do pay me a more than fair price for the work.

All well and good. I think we are getting a bit too far off topic.

I have posted pictures of work I have done for myself, but because of the nature of my work and clientele, they demand confidentiality.

That's very interesting. That kind of work makes for an interesting posting. Without naming names, or addresses, the pictures are just pictures. Or, post whatever you have done for yourself.

However, my work is on display in museums in DC, among other places, if you are that interested in seeing more of my work.

Yes, that would be good. Any links, or where exactly are they displayed?

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[chopnhack]

Wooo!!

Woodturner, you have museum pieces!! Why didn't you post them???? That is outstanding!! This is like having David Marks or Marc Spagnuolo on the forum.
What kind of pieces are they? When did you complete them? How did you get them considered for the museum or where you approached?

I would like to one day have published work myself!

[cabinetman]

Wooo!!

Woodturner, you have museum pieces!! Why didn't you post them???? That is outstanding!! This is like having David Marks or Marc Spagnuolo on the forum.
What kind of pieces are they? When did you complete them? How did you get them considered for the museum or where you approached?

I would like to one day have published work myself!

As the rule goes... "No pics - didn't happen".

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[sweensdv]

As the rule goes... "No pics - didn't happen".

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Personally, unless proven untrustworthy, I take a man at his word when he says something.

[cabinetman]

Personally, unless proven untrustworthy, I take a man at his word when he says something.

Pictures are just so enjoyable. I like seeing the work of others...don't you?

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[sweensdv]

Pictures are just so enjoyable. I like seeing the work of others...don't you?

Sure I do, who doesn't? On the other hand I don't question a persons claim to something if they don't provide them. One of these, , or maybe one of these, , included with a response can make its meaning not seem so serious don't you think?

[chopnhack]

All banter aside, I am keenly interested in seeing what the good professor has to show!

He has mentioned his work in some threads, but I have never seen a picture either. And if he truly is on display in Washington, as he mentioned, I want to see it!! As I have said before I too would like to be published one day. As members of this forum we have all helped each other out whenever we can. If he has done it, I want the details and perhaps one day if my craft is good enough I can follow in his footsteps.