Craftsman 10" Radial Arm Saw - Thoughts?

[greenacres2]

Actually, the recall may be more of a blessing. The recall centered around the lower half of the blade being exposed. Some models have a retrofit guard assembly for the lower half of the blade, some of the older ones there is a "bounty" as Emerson apparently saw it more cost-effective to pay $100 than to develop the blade guard for those.

Bounty--they send you a box, you send the motor/carriage, they send money. If i find one local enough for $50 or less--i'll buy it for the gain!!

Blade Guard--mine was a pretty easy install, and it is pretty functional. The bonus is that they ship with a new 1 1/8" thick MDF top. Very nice upgrade to my saw. Actually, i was buying some rough-sawn oak, cherry and ash from a guy a while back and i mentioned that his RAS might be eligible. He was about to make a new top, and was so happy to get the "free" one that he threw in about 20 bf of walnut when he delivered!!

While we're here--i've had my late-70's Craftsman RAS since mid-February and have only had to tweak it twice (once on reassembly after installing the guard), and it wasn't that far off. Got it for $50, took it off the stand to put in my wife's Toaster (Scion xB--silver, looks just like a toaster!!). Got home, muscled it onto the stand and it was still in square. After building my own stand and transferring to it--i was out of square by a tick--but i don't blame the saw for that one either!!

Your mileage may vary.

earl

[GerryR]

I've had my Craftsman RAS for 30, or so, years. Some years ago, I replaced the wood table with an aluminum table and made a fence that can be easily moved for wider cross-cuts or rips. I also put a sheetmetal dust guard up to contain some of the mess.

I've never had accuracy problems with it, and have used it many times with a metal cutting blade to cut aluminum stock. Though I like having both, if I could only have one or the other, I would pick the RAS over the table saw.

Here's a pic:

[toolguy1000]

GerryR......not meant to be critical in any way, but there's something you don't see everyday.

[cwsmith]

Before buying any Craftsman radial arm saw, you should check on their recalled
items list to see if that saw is one of the one's that were recalled a few years ago. I don't remember the model number of that saw,but there was a BIG,BIG
deal about a certain one of their's that was a potential danger, and Sears had to
recall the motors on them and pay the owners for them. In this case, better off
safe, than sorry later!

My Craftsman RAS (113-29461) does NOT have the lower blade guard and the recall does not have a retrofit, so the only option for me is to send in the motor carriage. However, my RAS is far more valuable to me than the $100 offer.

The recall was huge, but frankly I look at the issue from the same perspective as the recent case against Ryobi and the "SawStop" influence. My saw, needs a lower blade guard only if you are so careless (incompetant?) as to throw your hand into the blade or place your hand in the blade's path as you use your other hand to pull the carriage into it.

With a table saw, people do have a tendency, on occasion, to push the stock with their hand or fingers much to near the blade. But on a RAS, the stock is stationary, the blade/carriage is restricted to a given path (usually clearly marked by previous saw kerf marks).

I was introduced to the RAS in high school shop class, after my teacher noticed my neglect to go near the table saw. (At 14, I had witnessed my father loose his fingers on a table saw!)

As instructed, the RAS "is a safer tool because you can always see the blade, see what it is doing, and it is you who controls the carriage movement." While I don't fully agree today (I'm hopefully much wiser today), I do still feel far more comfortable with my RAS than I do my table saw. But I am still in a state of apprehensive "caution", with any circular saw!. I do recognize that my long-ago shop teacher's objective was to get me back to the power tools, but none-the-less, his points of "seeing" and "controlling" are still pretty valid.

I do think that much of the bad reputation of the RAS is gained from the different opinions on its cross-cut feed procedure. Feeding on a table saw is pretty much a given, but on the RAS there's those of us who "pull" the cut and a handful of so-called experts who vehemently state that the cut should be done with a "push". You'll find so-called experts with that latter opinion as well as an occasional written text. I am of the opinion that the dynamics of the overhead blade pretty much dictate the "pull" cut.

The other problem (as I see it anyway), is that for most of two decades, the RAS was viewed by too many as a single "do-everything" tool. Some to the stuff accessories available for it were almost insane in their application. The RAS is fantastic for cross-cutting and it will rip, but I think ripping is much more efficient and somewhat safer on a table saw.

In anycase, the Sears recall is for all the models that were sold prior to the recall date which were NOT equipped with a lower blade guard as standard equipment. It was available as an accessory when I bought mine new in the fall of 1973. I didn't buy it though.

Finally, on my upper cast-metal blade housing/guard, there are bosses which could be tapped and fitted for a lower guard.


CWS

[GerryR]

I did put the lower blade guard on my Craftsman RAS and it is fine, until it is time to change the blade. Then suddenly my vocabulary gets more primitive.

I will add this about the safety aspect. I have manufactured factory automation equipment for various industries for years (now retired). I have had to make machines safety compliant. I think the more you make it so a person doesn't have to think about safety, or the particular way a machine can hurt them, the more likely they are going to get hurt. A guard is not a cure-all; it is an aid to safety.

Like CWS, I was taught how to be safe around equipment. Back in my shop days, guards were basically non-existent. I'm sure there were some mishaps, and an accident is exactly that, an unplanned event, and they will always happen. But a little proper training goes a long way.

The RAS is a definite "must have" for me and is my go-to saw in the shop.

[greenacres2]

The new table top i got with the blade guard was awesome. The lower blade guard is okay...it's on for now. but the top...that will stay!!

earl

[JimD]

I have an old Ryobi RAS on the same table as my 12 inch non-sliding CMS. The same long fence with stops serves both. The RAS gets used for wider crosscuts than the CMS can handle. Less often, it also gets used for cuts where you want to keep the blade a set difference above the table - something CMSs cannot do. The most typical example is putting tenons on the end of a long board (like the cross pieces to the headboard and footboard of a bed). A router could do this but I like to use the RAS with a dado blade. I leave it oversize and use a shoulder plane to clean it up and get to final size. This is quick, easy, and accurate. With a router I'd have to make a jig and deal with the router wanting to tip.

My Ryobi is made where you can flip the motor over and it's a sliding router. I've tried that a few times and found it near useless. Maybe if the cut was real light it would work but when I tried it the bit wanted to wander, the arm wasn't rigid enough to control a router taking a serious bite. The collet is also 1/4 inch so if the arm was OK, the collet would probably slip. Light duty at best.

C'man is exactly right about a negative hook blade. If you try to use a regular cross cut, you will find the blade pulling itself into the work and stalling the motor. You can fight that and make it work but putting on a negative hook blade is a much better way to deal with this. With the right blade, and with decent technique, a RAS is very nice to have around. I've used mine a lot in the last few days building a cabinet for over my son's washer and dryer. Rip on the table saw, cross cut on the RAS. Works great.

Jim

[cabinetman]

My Ryobi is made where you can flip the motor over and it's a sliding router. I've tried that a few times and found it near useless. Maybe if the cut was real light it would work but when I tried it the bit wanted to wander, the arm wasn't rigid enough to control a router taking a serious bite. The collet is also 1/4 inch so if the arm was OK, the collet would probably slip. Light duty at best.


Jim

Of all the RAS's I've had, I've found that using the arbor on the right side of the motor for anything is pretty useless. When I kept saving RAS's to make a radial arm router, I could forsee many advantages. I ran across this posting on another forum. The way it was done looks very usable. It's set up so the router can be rotated to horizontal. I never got around to it...yet.

.

[JimD]

C'man,

The Ryobi is noticably light and has less structure so less rigidity than other RASs. I don't think it's the motor that is the limitation, however. It's motor is a high speed motor, like a router, geared down (with noisy straight cut gears) for the saw blade. It could be argued the motor is better suited to being a router than it is a saw. The collet is only 1/4 inch and not particularly well made so it will slip under heavy load which is more of a limitation than the motor.

But I wonder if deflection of the arm will not be an issue on any of these setups. A saw blade set up right does not put much force or stress on the arm. It tends to pull the work against the fence which doesn't really try to deflect the arm. The router motor wants to shove the arm sideways. I don't really know what would happen with the setup you picture, I am just apprehensive due to my experience with the Ryobi. If you try to cut a dado, I think there will be enough deflection sideways of the arm that the dado will not be accurate. That is the problem I have with the Ryobi.

Jim

[cabinetman]

But I wonder if deflection of the arm will not be an issue on any of these setups. A saw blade set up right does not put much force or stress on the arm. It tends to pull the work against the fence which doesn't really try to deflect the arm. The router motor wants to shove the arm sideways. I don't really know what would happen with the setup you picture, I am just apprehensive due to my experience with the Ryobi. If you try to cut a dado, I think there will be enough deflection sideways of the arm that the dado will not be accurate. That is the problem I have with the Ryobi.

Jim

You're probably right. Some saws are better than others. If the slop can't be eliminated up on the tracks of the arm, or the arm itself, I can see it telegraphing a greater variance down at the router bit.

.

[woodturner]

The Ryobi is noticably light and has less structure so less rigidity than other RASs.

Which model? They made an 8" portable and a 10" RA2500, maybe some others.

I have an early RA2500 and I wouldn't describe it as "less rigid" than other mid range saws such as 1950's DeWalt. Weight is in the same range, around 300 lbs. I've heard the 8" was "light", but have never used one and have not seen one for decades, so I can't really speak to that. There could have been a design change on later 10" saws or a different model, so even if you have the 10" it might not be the same as mine.

I do have the router attachment for the saw but have never used it. Maybe I should try it to see how stable it is.

[AlanWS]

I would think there would be more need for rigidity in the RAS structure if it were used for cutting dadoes with a router than as usual with a stacked dado set. The reason I say this is that the force in routing is perpendicular to the path of the router. (The part of the bit that cuts is to the front, moving to the right.) You usually need a well anchored fence to follow, as routing will push the cut to the side, making it less accurately positioned. In contrast, the force of the saw blade is in line with the arm; there is little force pushing the cut out of position.