think this is worth $100?

[BigguyZ]

Well, even $5-600 for an old iron Unisaw isn't a bad deal... Though I personally would look into another motor w/ adapter.

[woodturner]

grainger does have the same 3hp leeson as i linked, but it's $145 more at grainger than the other retailer's website price.

Hmm - and I guess they don't have one in "their" brand?

A couple of other potential sources:

Harold Barker 3108 klinger Rd. Ada, OH 45810 419-634-7328
Harold has a HUGE assortmant of old Delta parts, nice guy, likes to talk. He probably has the motor, likely at a better price.

Joe at Plaza Machinery, Bethel, VT, 802-234-9673 Plaza is more of a "business" than Harold (who is essentially a hobbyist), but they have a good assortment of parts as well.

Might be worth trying the OWWM website as well, those folks will have good advice and maybe other sources.

[toolguy1000]

Hmm - and I guess they don't have one in "their" brand?

A couple of other potential sources:

Harold Barker 3108 klinger Rd. Ada, OH 45810 419-634-7328
Harold has a HUGE assortmant of old Delta parts, nice guy, likes to talk. He probably has the motor, likely at a better price.

Joe at Plaza Machinery, Bethel, VT, 802-234-9673 Plaza is more of a "business" than Harold (who is essentially a hobbyist), but they have a good assortment of parts as well.

Might be worth trying the OWWM website as well, those folks will have good advice and maybe other sources.

unfortunately, the "two ears" or flanges on the motor that mount it to the saw are unique to the unisaw. i wouldn't expect there wold be too many "plug and play" "house" brands available. when i contacted baldor, they were extremely un-encouraging, noting that my specific motor hasn't been produced for more than 20 years. i did come across plaza in a web search, and their price for a replacement motor was ~ $100 more than the linked website price i previously posted. BTW, that linked ebay source does have a physical presence in minnesota. that usually makes me feel better about ordering form ebay. next stop, BOYD @ OWWM.

i'll be picking up the motor from the first shop today and checking into another repair shop. if the shaft is trully bent, it's hard to imagine what kind of force would have been necessary to do that to a 3/4" piece of steel that protrudes from the motor 3" for the drive pulley.

[woodturner]

if the shaft is trully bent, it's hard to imagine what kind of force would have been necessary to do that to a 3/4" piece of steel that protrudes from the motor 3" for the drive pulley.

Yes, that does seem like an unusual stress for a table saw.

Easy enough to check, though, to convince yourself it is - or isn't - bent. Easiest with a dial indicator, but you can do it with a pencil.

Depending on how they checked and measured it, they might have confused bearing runout for a bent shaft, but it seems like a motor shop would know the difference?

Anyway, set the motor on a flat surface, and use dial guage on a base with the plunger arm touching the shaft and the plunger compressed to approximately mid range. Rotate the motor shaft by hand one complete revoloution and note the variation in measurements. Subtract max measurement from min to get "runout".

Repeat the measurement at three points along the shaft. If the shaft is bent, you should see significant variation between the three sets of measurements, while bearing runout should result in approximately the same range of measurements. If you notice a "high spot" on the shaft in each measurement position, that might also suggest a bent shaft.

If you don't have a dial indicator, you can do similar measurements by clamping a pencil or rod to a block of wood and using that as the "feeler". Rotate the shaft to find the high point, then use feeler guages to measure the distance between the feeler and shaft at lower points. You can also just eyeball it, but it may be difficult to observe small but significant variations.

[tommyt654]

Cut the old ears off and weld them to this , http://claz.org/classifieds.html?q=Unisaw+motor , http://wiki.vintagemachinery.org/Uni...ateMotors.ashx , or just buy this and add a newer motor , http://stores.renovoparts.com/-strse...lta/Detail.bok


there's a solution to every problem, you just have to really want to find it rather than letting everyone else do the legwork 4 ya,LOL

[toolguy1000]

got the motor back from the repair shop and thought i'd take a minute around lunch to loosen the pulley set screws and see if the pulley would come off easily. the set screws came loose easily (that liquid wrench is a great little product) but the pulley won't come off. here are pics of the end of the shaft and pulley. are those welds opposite one another? and if they are, how are they "undone" so the pulley can be removed?

[mpc]

Setscrews and welds? I'd bet a prior owner had problems with the set screws - either stripped them, didn't have the right sized allen wrench for them, whatever - and thus had slippage between the motor and the pulley... so he spot-welded the pulley and shaft together instead. And possibly overheated the motor shaft causing it to warp at that time.

Some things I'd try if I were in your situation:
1: what is the diameter of the motor shaft and/or the hole in the pulley? Can you get a hole saw bit that just fits in there - especially a "bi-metallic" bit since they'll cut metal without dulling instantly? Just slice the welds apart. They'll be tough... use cutting oil and run your drill at a low RPM to avoid heat buildup.

2: heat the pulley with a propane or mapp gas torch and then whack it with a small hammer to separate it from the motor shaft - you may find those weld blobs don't actually connect the pulley to the motor shaft. A press-fit (i.e. tight fit), and/or rust accumulation, may have the pulley tightly gripping the motor shaft. Heat plus physical shock will usually overcome such press-on parts.

3: Ever see a bearing press in operation? Machine shops use them to shove metal shafts into and out of bearings... or to stuff bearings into/out of larger housings. Basically it's a beefy metal frame and a strong bottle jack. Most have a solid metal bar pointed straight down from the bottle jack... as you crank the jack, the jack pushes against the top of the press frame. Since that's solid metal structure (think I-beams) instead the jack pushes/moves down, pushing this metal bar down into your workpiece below it. The pulley would straddle some fixed I-beams while the motor hangs down. The jack's solid metal bar then pushes on the motor shaft inside the pulley center opening... ideally pushing the motor out of the pulley. I'd expect a motor repair shop to have a small bearing press since many motors use press-on bearings internally. Auto machine shops and many NAPA stores have presses and charge only a few bucks.

Good luck.

Oh, do you know where the motor shaft is bent? Is the part inside the windings area of the motor straight and true - with the damage in the drive extension part that sticks out to support the pulley? If so, one option would be to put the motor shaft into a metal lathe and turn the drive extension to a smaller diameter that'll be straight again. Then a "speedy-sleeve" type of metal tube is fit over the smaller shaft to return it to original size. It's a common repair done to automotive crankshafts, transmission shafts, steering shafts, etc. when they get rust damage or grooves worn into them from grease seals.

mpc

[toolguy1000]

worked on the pulley removal last night and got it off fairly easily. rented a gear puller from autozone, used a large hose clamp to secure the three "legs" of the puller so they wouldn't slip out from under the pulley, placed a small hex nut on edge between the end of the motor shaft and the puller's drive screw and off it came. here's a link to a video of a runout test:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKZ18b0fGWA&feature=plcp

looks like the runout could be less than 3 or 4 thousandths although this may be due to the surface condition of the shaft. but more significant is the apparent play in the shaft evidenced by the knocking noise made when i apply a little force tangential to the shaft. i also noticed that, as i rotated the shft during the runout test, if i applied any sort of irregular force to the rear end of the shaft, it could cause a 3-4 thousandths" change in the shaft's runout, even if not rotating the shaft. i'm hoping this is bad bearings, but i'll be bringing the motor to a different shop next week to see what they say about it. i may be wrong, but in my limited experience, the motor, now that the pulley is off, does not appear to be behaving like i would expect a motor with a bent shaft to behave. hopefully, it'll just be bad bearings.

also, here is a pic of the key from the motor pulley. it wasn't seated properly and is short for the keyway, so perhaps that had something to do with the irregular rotation of the pulley. the saga continues.

[woodturner]

but more significant is the apparent play in the shaft evidenced by the knocking noise made when i apply a little force tangential to the shaft.

In the video, the motor enclosure appears to be moving - so it may not be bearing play but just a base that is not exactly flat (and is not a big deal). If you securely clamp down the motor so that the enclosure cannot move, does it still move and make the noise?

BTW, in my experience, less than 0.010" runout is pretty good.

[tommyt654]

I noticed that as well, I'd just remount the pulley correctly after replacing the bearings in the motor, rebuild the arbor and throw on some new belts an then throw on a new blade and start cutting

[toolguy1000]

In the video, the motor enclosure appears to be moving - so it may not be bearing play but just a base that is not exactly flat (and is not a big deal). If you securely clamp down the motor so that the enclosure cannot move, does it still move and make the noise?

BTW, in my experience, less than 0.010" runout is pretty good.

right you are regarding the motor moving as the force was applied. just went back out to the motor and secured it so nothing was moving and the noise is still there. looking at it closely, there is a slight "collar" between the motor's end housing and the shaft and it appears to be moving as the force is applied. hopefully the bent shaft will turn out to be just old bearings. it would be nice to able to use what appears to be the original 40 y/o motor on the saw.

[toolguy1000]

i dropped the motor off yesterday at another repair shop with the pulley removed. they called this morning and reported that the bearings are indeed bad as is the position the bearings occupy on the motor shaft. to replace the bearings, sleeve and machine the shaft and replace an internal switch(?), the cost is $400. a new Baldor 3 hp motor is ~$850. alternatively, they can knurl the motor shaft, replace the bearings and forget about the switch for $185. i think i know what knurling refers to, but is that a one way operation which would preclude the shaft from being more appropriately repaired in the future and does sleeving really work? and how does that estimate for the scope of the work performed sound?

also, anyone know of any on line resources that would help me disassemble the motor so a machine shop could repair the shaft and replace the bearings? constructive comments appreciated.

[toolguy1000]

just to tie this thread up, the work needed to return the unisaw to functionality is complete. a few things still need to be be done, like ZCIs, dust collection and a splitter, but the saw is now functional. the arbor had to be replaced as it was damaged. my first attempt at that failed as i used a part that was on the arbor when it was disassembled, but it turns out that the part, a very thin washer, was not intended for this model unisaw. i kept it as part of my arbor rebuild attempt as shanesy used a similar part in his video on the subject. turns out it didn't apply to my arbor. when i used this thin washer, it pierced the raceways(?) of the bearing furthest away from the arbor, damaging it. that is what caused the noise in this video clip of my failed rebuild attempt:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_cYl6FvN88&feature=plcp

having no clue that i actually damaged a bearing by including that erroneous washer (i mean, it was there before, why wouldn't it be included as part of the rebuild, right? and shanesy used it in his rebuld, right?), i contacted the sawcenter in springfield, mass. and shipped the whole arbor assembly there on a monday and by friday it was back. probably not the cheapest alternative, but they really did a nice job ( i can't say enough about how helpful they were and what excellent work they do). the only thing original in the arbor assembly is the arbor carriage. everything else, arbor, spacers, bearings, load spring, etc. is brand new. this is what the saw sounds like now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=et0iS6rNatA&feature=plcp

the fence was disassembled, completely cleaned and lubricated and reassembled. it works every bit as well as the OEM fence on my ridgid 2412. rails were cleaned and waxed per the instructions in the shanesy video. the table and wings were sanded with 100 paper, then 150 paper, then 220 paper, then wet sanded with mineral spirits and 400 wet/dry paper, then buffed with a sander and both rough and fine scotch brite pads. the tab and extensions were then finished with 2 coats of last wax. they are quite smooth and dead flat.

BTW, here's tip for anyone who has a floor jack and has to move a weighty tool from one movable vehicle to another. i needed to move the saw from a moves dolly to a proper mobile base before reinstalling the table and wings. i use a floor jack, one of my work benches and some 1x and 2x material. here are a few pics of the exchange.

this didn't turn out to be a real supermax gloat. had it been fully functional for the $40 in gas money as a net out of pocket, it would have been. but at a little over $400 invested in repairs, i don't have to wonder about the condition of the motor or any component of the saw. it runs smooth enough to pass a nickel test (note the nickel in the center of the saw in this video), so i'm going to classify it as a conservative gloat. and, should i decide to part with it (i'm fairly certain i can get back what i put into it, if not a few bucks more), i got a good education about what to look for in future cabinet saw purchases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb3pcjAPZCU&feature=plcp

[chopnhack]

That's awesome toolguy!! I still think you got a great deal there and its certainly gloat worthy. A cabinet saw at $400 in like new condition for its age is really great, congrats again. Great technique on moving the saw, I would be a little concerned using quick grip clamps (that's what they look like to me) for the exchange though Really ingenious of you

[BigguyZ]

Wow! I have to agree that $400 for a working Unisaw is a great deal. That's a lot of cast iron there. The only other thing I'd do would be to paint the cabinet. Maybe try to match the Delta battleship grey... Though that's a lot of sanding/ priming/ painting to do.