Jorgensen Clamps - Switching to China?

[woodturner]

I asked if they were changing their policy on where their products were made. Here is the reply:

"Most of our core products, pipe clamp fixtures, steel bar clamps, steel spring clamps and woodworker's vises continue to be made in the U.S.

The question to ask, though, is what THEY mean by "made in the U.S."

With recent changes to labeling laws, the FTC requires 70% of the manufacturing cost to be added in the US to label a product "made in U.S.A". Given labor costs, they could make all the parts overseas and do the final assembly in the US, from the entirely foreign made parts, and still label the product "made in U.S.A". They could also be making the product entirely in the U.S., as many companies are now doing (outsourcing is declining and domestic production is increasing).

If the trend toward domestic production continues, we may soon be able to buy a car that is "made in U.S." from brands other than Toyota and Honda.

[cabinetman]

As for cars, IMO, US quality can't compete with Germany or Italy. I would prefer BMW, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, or Lamborghini to any vehicle made in the US.

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[All Thumbs]

The question to ask, though, is what THEY mean by "made in the U.S."

With recent changes to labeling laws, the FTC requires 70% of the manufacturing cost to be added in the US to label a product "made in U.S.A". Given labor costs, they could make all the parts overseas and do the final assembly in the US, from the entirely foreign made parts, and still label the product "made in U.S.A". They could also be making the product entirely in the U.S., as many companies are now doing (outsourcing is declining and domestic production is increasing).

If the trend toward domestic production continues, we may soon be able to buy a car that is "made in U.S." from brands other than Toyota and Honda.

AFAIK, 75% of the total manufacturing costs have to be performed in the U.S., and the last substantial transformation must occur here.

That has been the rule since 1996. No recent changes I'm aware of.

[All Thumbs]

As for cars, IMO, US quality can't compete with Germany or Italy. I would prefer BMW, Porsche, Audi, Ferrari, or Lamborghini to any vehicle made in the US.

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If I was going to spend that kind of money I'd go for a Tesla Roadster.

0 to 60, 3.7 seconds.

[Cochese]

If I was going to spend that kind of money I'd go for a Tesla Roadster.

0 to 60, 3.7 seconds.

And $40,000 battery replacement if you forget to charge it. Tesla isn't going to be around much longer, I don't believe.

BMWs have well-documented wiring issues, Ferraris comically go up in flames, Honda has forgotten how to make cars...if I was buying a new car these days I'd look to Hyundai or Ford. The 2013 Fusion looks stunning...too bad it's not RWD.

Made in the USA means something, just not as much to me as it does some. If I'm paying a premium I want it to be for quality, not pride.

[cabinetman]

BMWs have well-documented wiring issues, Ferraris comically go up in flames, Honda has forgotten how to make cars...if I was buying a new car these days I'd look to Hyundai or Ford. The 2013 Fusion looks stunning...too bad it's not RWD.

Made in the USA means something, just not as much to me as it does some. If I'm paying a premium I want it to be for quality, not pride.

I've had several BMW's and have friends that have them, and no wiring problems. Maybe we are just the lucky few.

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[LCHIEN]

That doesn't mean much C'man. A wiring harness problem incidence is something you'd expect to be near zero-point-zero percent. Therefore a car reporting 5% of owners having problems would be considered an problem epidemic, although if you did a poll of several (lets say less than 10) owners you'd likely find zero said they had the problems. If you didn't ask them specifically they probably wouldn't even mention it.

I read an article recently that basically says with US manufacturers' latest car models are now competitive with most Japanese makes and world standards of reliability.

[cabinetman]

That doesn't mean much C'man.

That's right. Like I said we are among the lucky few.

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[Cochese]

Everyone can have lemons in a vehicle known for it's reliability, and others can have gems in one known for it's faults. I had an Eclipse that most would shy away from and it was a very reliable car - no crankwalk as the model is known for.

[cwsmith]

My son had a BMW-made "Mini". He loved that car and I also thought it was neat, although much more lavishly built than the original British-made Mini-Coope S that I remembered from the early 60's.

But, the BMW simply proved to be engineered with no reasonable thought given to maintenance or replacement.

For example, one of the rear lid hinges was out of alignment, obviously theh previous owner had either slammed it down on something in the trunk or it had been hit (though no signs of bodywork was evident).

One day, it simply fell off. We took it to the local BMW garage for replacement of the hinges and reattachment. Hinges were cheap enough, about $120 apiece... but they were blind riveted from the inside (not bolted). That would require the seats to be removed, then the rear side panels, and finally the headliner and the rivets drilled out and of course all of this replaced. Total cost was around $1800!

At the time, he was also getting a severe buzzing noise from the auto-transmission.... BMW and Mini do NOT service the transmission or sell parts for it... it requires a completely NEW transmission. IIRC, that was about $2600!

He sold the car to a local mechanic and took a pretty substantial loss.

I once had a VW (my first new car). The main wiring harness was snake through welded body and not serviceable. While that may be true with all cars, on this one it proved to be a disaster. The wiper's weren't fused and one winter night I came out of work in a dark parking lot, started the engine and flipped on the wipers... which got stuck on some un-seen windshield ice. I immediately smelled smoke and before I could kill the engine, it stalled! The harness wire from the wiper motor all the way back to the battery was completely burnt. The car had to be towed home. I had to run a new wire from through the passenger compartment. I traded the thing in on a Plymouth!

German engineering is at times impressive, but I find too much of it hand-fitted and not very mindful of service/replacement.

CWS

[sailor55330]

So with all the discussion (some very strong) and feelings about items made "overseas", what about the big influx of items being built/produced/assembled in our neighbors to the south, Mexico? China and Europe aren't the only import countries out there. I think sometimes they fall through the cracks as things are labeled "made/assembled in North America". Canada also falls into this category on occasion. Where do they fall into the heirarchy of the production world?

I wish the US was still the undisputable kingpin on quality, but I just don't think that's true in many cases. I think one of our biggest challenges is adaptability. For example, in China, a factory can make a left-handed widget on Tuesday and then have no issues re-tooling to produce plastic lunchboxes a month later. For them, it's all about keeping the factory running, which is something we have forgotten. I don't know of many factories that would completely re-tool just to keep the doors open. We probably have some mulit-use plants, but I don't think we have done as good of a job keeping our flexibility up. Look at the 50+ year old steel factories that are still up & running and then look at all the steel factories that are sitting idle.

Just some thoughts.

[All Thumbs]

Tesla isn't going to be around much longer, I don't believe.

They are discontinuing the Roadster.

They have high hopes for the model S, which is stunning.

[jussi]

I think expensive quality tools definitely have their place in woodworking. I'm a craigslist addict and actually acquired most of my tools that way. I've bought and sold many woodworking tools both on cl and on woodworking forums. I've found tools such as Festool, LN, Veritas, BCTW at 80%-90% retail sell much faster than mid grade tools at 50% or lower.

[luckymonkey]

Adjustable Clamp Jorgenson China Handsrews

Jorgenson used to take pride in making handscrews in the USA. Not anymore. They are importing them now and you can tell by more than the label. They are no longer hard maple and the quality is way off from the USA ones. The wood is knotty the jaws are misaligned and the threaded rod and handle are as cheap as they come. If you need any hurry up and buy the old ones before they are gone from the shelves. By the way don't bother with Bessey, they switched to China a year ago and there quality is just as bad as the new Jorgenson's. Try Dubuque Clamp if you cannot find any old Jorgenson's on the shelf. They are still made in USA and they look great.