I just picked up an old Craftsman TS (113.298151) from Craigslist for $50. I think I may have an issue with keeping the blade aligned to the miter slot. When I went to adjust the trunnions, the bolts were kinda loose. So, I got everything aligned, and tightened the trunnion bolts. A few cuts later, the blade is no longer aligned with miter slot. I've done some research, and I've seen a few recommendations including using PALS, ditching the original "star" lock washer on the trunnion bolts and using regular lock washers, and using locktite. Does anyone have any first hand experience with a solution? It seems this is a common problem.
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that saw was built for sears by emerson electric adnthey usually have the durability of a truck rig. i have two similar saws, one a c-man and the other a ridgid. once aligned and secured by all 6 trunion bolts, i have never had the blade shift relative to the miter slot, absent some sort of catastrophe during a cut (blade binding, kickback, etc.). PALS won;t help to keep the blade in position. their primary function is to make it easier tol move the blade (by moving the rear trunion) during the alignment process.
if this is your first "real" 10" TS, $50 was a really low price to pay for that saw. so, re: the price...congrats. it rates a "you suck". did you check out the trunions thoroughly? i would unfasten the saw from the leg stand and flip it over onto the CI table. check the trunions, arbor and trunion mounting points on the underside of the table for cracks, breaks or other defects. absent those defects, i'd reattach the trunions to the table using teflon tape on each of the 6 mounting bolts. remove them one at a time, 2 wraps of tape on the first 1" of the bolts and reattach. that should keep the bolts from loosening without any of the permenance of lock tite. always be aware that to bevel the blade, the lock nut on the front of the saw must be loosened and then retightened. failure to do this could, i suppose, move the blade relative to the miter slot, but the odds are it would bend the side of the saw case first.
if you want to post a few pics of the underside of the saw, it would help others possibly notice something that is amiss.there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it. -
It's possible that the original bolts and washers have been overstressed and are now out of shape causing the alignment to slip a bit once they're tightened. It's worth checking and possibly replacing the original hardware with some high quality replacement bolts and washers.Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.
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Thanks for the help guys. I am checking the distance from blade to slot with a combination square. I am using the same tooth to measure at the front and back of blade. Right now, it seems to be OK. I went through the adjustment process again, and checked the distance each time I would tighten a trunnion bolt.
There is still one thing happening that I think shouldn't be. If I keep my combination square in place and rotate the blade 360 degrees, at one point, several teeth will strike the end of the combo. square. This happens on 2 different blades that I've tried. Could there be an issue with the arbor bearing? Also, I am doing all of this with the blade completely raised. When I lower it to a height good for cutting 3/4 stock, I can lay my combo. square down and all of the teeth will strike the square at the back of the blade.Comment
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have you checked the arbor and arbor flange for runout?there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.Comment
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that would be my next step. all you need is a dial gauge ($10 @ harbor freight), your miter gauge and a piece of scrap wood. if the arbor is bent, it's probably not worth fixing. if the flange is warped, there is a procedure for correcting it while mounted to the saw.there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.Comment
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So...with this...
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-...cator-623.html
...and this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvGwcPg_yt4
I should be in the right ball park?Comment
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yes, that's it exactly. but in addition to the check of the arbor flange, check the arbor itself. (the arbor is the threaded "rod" onto which the blade is mounted). with the arbor flange runout set up in place, just adjust the arbor to 90* and mount the dial gauge to almost anything stationary, with the pointer of the dial gauge resting on the arbor threads. rotate the arbor slowly and observe the dial gauge (BTW, unpliug the saw before doing this). check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlhaZ...eature=related
the test of the arbor starts @ the 3 minute mark. they do it with the blade @45*, but i'd prefer to also do it @ 90*. a variance of more than .005" is indicative of a faulty arbor/arbor flange. good luck.there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.Comment
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Ok, so I got a dial indicator from HF this morning and did some testing. I tilted the arbor to 45 degrees and screwed the dial indicator to a piece of scrap that I had cut at 45 degrees. I then clamped the wood to my miter gauge. As I rotated the arbor, I was getting no more that .02" movement on the dial indicator. I think this is a good thing!?! The arbor feels very firm, has no wobble, and rotates easily.
I then put a blade back on, and tested to see how it lines up with my miter slot. I was getting about .03" movement as I slid the dial indicator across the face of the blade. Is this acceptable? I tried another blade, and got different numbers.
I'm thinking now that I really need to invest in some good blades. I was using a few cheap Irwin blades. Please tell me if I'm off track here. Thanks for your help again.
Also, my pulleys and belt are complete junk. I can tell by looking at the pulleys that they are out of round. Oddly, the saw actually doesn't vibrate too much with junk pulleys. I'm guessing that replacing them and getting a new belt would help me even more.Comment
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FWIW, I have my miter slots (the accessory slot tables) on my BT3100 adjusted and locked to .001" against front / rear of the blade tested against 2 different Freud blades...
I have used Irwin blades in the past, and have had very poor results with them. Your run out may just be the blade itself... Try with a different blade...Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.Comment
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No worries... Just FWIW, The Freud Diablo blades from Home Depot cost about the same that Lowes charged for the Irwin blades... Not sure if Lowes even still sells the Irwins... Years ago, and I mean many many moons ago, the Irwin Marathon was a decent enough blade... Not so anymore...Please like and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Please check out and subscribe to my Workshop Blog.Comment
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Agreed...the current Irwin blades are pretty humble IMO. Their former "Woodworker" series was made in Germany by Leitz, and was darn good but has been discontinued in favor of their current junk.
There are some great closeout deals on the Onsrud blades made by Leitz in Germany on Ebay. They're auction style and have free s/h, but often sell at the listing the price uncontested.
The Freud Diablo, DeWalt Precision Trim series, and CMT ITK Plus blades are also usually a good deal.Last edited by Knottscott; 11-02-2011, 05:35 AM.Happiness is sort of like wetting your pants....everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth. Comment
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generally, .001" is the number i've seen as the standard for arbor flange run out ( i assume that is what you checked with the dial gauge. i further assume that your .02" is meant to indicate .002", because .02" of movement would be unacceptable). also, did you check the arbor itself in the same way? it's run out, since it is what holds the blade on the saw, should also max out at .001"
speaking from personal experience, investing in machined pulleys and a link belt will help greatly in reducing vibration, especially if the existing pulleys are not that great and the drive belt has acquired any sort of "set" from lack of use in the past.
if there is concern that a blade will not provide an accurate bearing surface for aligning the blade to the miter slot, i've seen MDF stand in for a blade. cut a piece of 3/4" MDF 3" wide and 15" long. drill a 5/8" hole about 2" in from one end. place the hole on the arbor and tighten down the arbor washer and nut (just snug). rotate the piece of MDF forward to check the miter slot alignment and then rotate the MDF to the rear of the saw and check again.
regarding blades, wood magazine, over the past 2-3 years, did 2 tests of major brands of blades. they noted which were top tools (usually pretty pricey) and which were good values, providing accurate, reliable performance without breaking the bank.there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.Comment
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