Rigid R4512 vs Grizzly G0715P

[spagington]

I currently have a BT3100 and am looking to upgrade to something bigger. My initial thought was the Griz G0715p hybrid (currently $859 w/shipping) then I ran across the Rigid R4512 ($499). From a features perspective, the only major difference I see is the wings. The Griz is cast iron and the Rigid is steel. I know the cast iron is better, but is it $350 better? Any other thoughts?

I also thought about a cabinet saw, but don't have 220V.

Thanks,
Scott

[Cochese]

Not that much better, IMHO. Also the Craftsman's might be worth looking at. Should be due for a nice sale via the Craftsman Club on the cabinet-style saws.

[jeepman71]

Second on the craftsmen, it is a good looking saw and the price seems pretty fair. I haven't dug into it as I don't have the room for it.

jeepman71

[sweensdv]

The Ridgid table saws have become junkier and cheapened up with every new model introduced in recent years. IMO, none of their hybrids are constructed as well as their older contractor style saws were. The stamped steel extension tables and two piece rail system are just two examples.

The Grizzly saw you mentioned comes setup for 220V so you would have to buy the optional circuit breaker in order to run it on 110V. I don't know what that would cost but I doubt if it would be all that much.

Would I buy either one of these saws? No. The main reason I say that is if the Grizzly is financially within your budget then I would seriously look for a used cabinet saw. In the long run you would be much better off and would have not spent more than you originally intended too.

[Knottscott]

The fence on the Grizzly looks substantially more robust to me, and the Grizzly also has a full enclosure, which adds mass and improves dust collection. Whether or not those differences plus the cast iron wings add up to $350 is up to you.

The Craftsman 22116 goes on sale in the low $700s sometimes. It has a full enclosure, granite top, hefty steel fence, riving knife, and cabinet mounted trunnions.

[sailor55330]

FWIW, I just bought the 4512. I formerly had a bt3100 and still do over in the corner. I looked at the sears, steel city, grizzly, PC, and a few others. Given my budget, it was what I felt to be the best saw that I could afford. I've had it about 3 weeks and can tell you that it is so much nicer than my 3100 it isn't even funny. In fairness, the bt was used. Out of the box, the 4512 was dead on in terms of blade alignment and fence alignment. Is it a perfect saw, no, but if you are calling the Ridgid "junky" based on in-store displays, that seems a little drastic because the ones I have seen haven't even been close to being set up right. The stamped wings are a concession, but still light years ahead on what was on my bt3. There is no comparison in power and the new saw doesn't sound like a jet trying to take off. It is simply just built better and sturdier than the bt3100, even if it may not quite be up to the older style contractor saws from Ridgid.

I'd be willing to answer any questions about the 4512

[spagington]

Thanks to everyone for their feedback.

Sailor, can provide some specific examples of things you like about the 4512 that were problems for you with the 3100?

[sailor55330]

Things I like about the 4512 vs the bt3100 (this is not meant to be a derogatory post about the 3100 so please don't take it that way as I am only speaking about my old saw)

There is more table room in front of the blade to support work

There is a true miter slot, not the SMT which was finicky fo me

The difference is power is night and day--ripping 2x4's on the bt was a challenge even with a 24t ripping blade

The weight of the saw is nearly double which leads to much less vibration. I can put a nickle on edge on this saw and it doesn't even fall over--on the bt it would "dance" to the edge and fall off

The fence is much more substantial, providing a better platform for jigs (so far) and is much more accurate

The lift system is super easy to use--I can actually move the saw with fingertips

Dust collection even with a Shopvac is much better

Adjustments on the 4512 are pretty straightforward, even with table mounted trunions. On the BT, aligning the smt was much more involved (read frustrating)

The riving knife/splitter can be adjusted for thru-cuts and ripping and the bladeguard can be attached and removed without tools. which makes them more conducive to actually using them.

The induction motor is much easier on the ears

I get square cuts--something I never did on the bt3100 (sad, but true)


As I said, I've only had the saw for 2 weekends, so I'm still learning, but so far, it has been very nice.

[AceTKK]

The R4512 is decent for the price, but unfortunately it's a big step down from the excellent Ridgid saws that it replaced.

It's the same internally as the Craftsman equivalent, and people have had a lot of trouble with the trunion design. I haven't heard as many complaints on the Ridgid version, so maybe they were addressed, but the last model was better designed and they cheaped out on the 4512.

The two-piece fence rail is the deal-breaker for me.

[dbhost]

As much as I loved the old TS3650 and TS3660 the newer saws have had a lot of problems. I would go with the Grizzly. The cast iron, better saw design, and nobody fussing about quality control issues that I have seen... Worth the extra $$ to me...

[cwsmith]

I can't speak for the Grizz, but it sure looks nice in the catalog. To date, I have seen two Ridgid 4512's as well as the Craftsman counter-offering.

While I'm normally a Ridgid fan, I just don't like the 4512. The split rail is, IMO, a negative to some degree, but mostly I don't like the fence and wings. On all three units I looked at, the fence just seems to drag. Worse is that it bumps on the the right wing (on all three saws... the two Ridgid's and the Craftsman). Hopefully, that's an assembly or adjustment problem, but it just seems a bit strange that all three of these saws have the same problem. On two of these which were perhaps weeks or months older (one Ridgid and the Craftsman), the fence had actually worn the coating off the forward right corner of the wing. The way I see it, one should not have to raise the fence to get it up on on the table and/or it's extensions.

Now, I have to admit that I'm sort of a novice to table saws and perhaps have just been spoiled by my, now five year old, BT31001. But, it makes me wonder why these much more expensive beast's can't make a fence that rides smoothly or locks down securely. (And, I keep looking for the release latch to move the wings out further on the rails ).

CWS

[Relative]

I've had the R4512 for a couple of weeks now and have to comment. As I went through the alignment checks, the only thing I had to adjust was the rear of the fence - I like it further away from the blade than the front of the fence.

As far as the split rails are concerned, doesn't bother me. If I move the fence to the left of the blade to check, I barely feel a tick as it traverses the joint. Actually, in use, I haven't crossed to the left side with the fence and not sure why I would.

The extensions aren't touched by the fence as I slide it out to the far right - where I always park the fence since I drop a piece of cardboard on top of the saw and use it for assembly, glue-ups, etc. The wings are easily adjusted and I guess you can distort them any way you like since they are not cast. My previous delta had stamped (not cast) extensions and they never caused a problem.

The only gripe I have so far is that danged lever that locks the riving knife. Posted about it elsewhere. I find that if I do any dado work at all, the assembly comes off and stays off the rest of the day. Everything gets put back together at the end of the day unless the saw tabletop is otherwise occupied with a project. The guard and kickback pawls and the knife come off real easy to get them out of the way.

Now to start making some zero clearance inserts....

Mike

[sailor55330]

Mike--I completely agree with your comments. It sounds exactly like the experience I've had with my 4512 with the exception of the riving knife adjustment lever. What's happening with yours?

[Relative]

R4512 riving knife lever

Mike--I completely agree with your comments. It sounds exactly like the experience I've had with my 4512 with the exception of the riving knife adjustment lever. What's happening with yours?

After I mounted the dado blades the first time, I looked at that lever standing upright and realized if I put it in the locked position, it would hit the 8" dado blades. When upright, it's rather loose and my brain immediately told me it was going to vibrate toward the blades and attack them. Scared the bejesus out of me and I then took out the two cap screws that mount that assembly and removed it entirely for the duration of the cuts I made.

I examined it for a way to change the operation, but found that it would only work the way it was installed - no way to face the lever operation away from the blades. It's spring loaded, but without the riving knife in, it's at minimum tension.

I simply don't like that setup.

Mike

[sailor55330]

I haven't tried to put dado's on my saw, but I can see your point. I would have done the same thing