OK to Use a Charger as a Transformer?

[leehljp]

I need and am looking for light weight (1500 to 2000 lb pull) winches, and 12V winches are much cheaper than 120V by about $50.00 at the least.

I have a 10/2/55 amp 12V battery charger that I rarely use. Can I use the battery charger to power the 12V winch for about 30 seconds at time, and maybe 5 times over an hour, for 4 hours at a stretch? And this repeated daily for a week?


Here is my problem: In cleaning our house, we have lots of things that are boxed, and the boxes weight 40 to 80 pounds each. I want to just throw most of the stuff away but LOML says "Not Now, Later"! They weigh too much for me to carry them up and down the folding ladders - for as many as they are. I can easily attach a winch to the attic (very strong roof beams) above the ladder, make a suspended platform and lift the boxes into the attic, and then roll them (on dolly) into a storage spot.

I probably need to just break down and spend the extra money for a 120V but I could use the 12V in more situations (with my pickup.)

Anyone's experience with winches for lifting boxes would be appreciated.

(We have our freight from Japan arriving at the end of January, so I need to get this done this week.)

[gsmittle]

Hmmmm… My free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it: seems to me you'd be OK, as long as the clamps don't short against each other.

That assumes the amperage draw isn't high enough melt the insulation or destroy the charger.

g.

[Stytooner]

I don't think it will work very well if it is one of the small hand held trickle type chargers. If so, then your best bet would be to use a spare battery and just keep it charged up with the trickle. I imagine there is considerable amp draw for a winch. These little chargers don't provide a lot of amps.

That said, I have hooked them up to dead batteries before and immediately cranked the vehicle, so they must provide some amperage. (just saw the 55 amp rating. That should be plenty.)

[mclear]

Why don't you use a car battery or just use a 12V outlet that attaches directly to the battery? If the battery wears down, then use the charger to charge the battery.

[leehljp]

DUH me. Getting back into English full time is taxing my vocabulary. I should have been looking for hoists, but the winch does provide more power and load for the price.

However, I would prefer to use a winch. I don't have an extra battery, but running off of a battery and charging the battery would be better for versatility. The cost for a battery would put me into the 120V winches again. I will use the winch in my small shop and shed more than I would with my truck. Therefore, I may as well bite the bullet and just get a 120V.

I don't want to be taking the battery from the truck or car and back and use it back and forth, too much electronics to mess up and re-set.

For what it is worth, I have used a 12V charger to run some 1/4 hp motors for a very short run of a few seconds for testing purposes a few years ago and that worked OK. But that was only for testing purposes and for a few seconds at a time.

[cork58]

Hoist? Winch?

I just got in from doing a little timber harvesting, was using my 12V winch to drag out some logs to the loader (which I do alot) cuz the D4 is still not running. I used it probably an hour total running time and still had plenty of battery, well not a car battery, but a booster pack. I think I paid around $30.00 at Walmart a couple of years ago, and $65.00 for the winch. That should put you in for under a $100.00. The booster pack can be used for anything 12V, is clean (no acid), plug in to any outlet to charge, start a dead car (the safe way), cannot be hooked up backwards to anything (it is really idot proof) and run anything you can put in a cigarete adapter.

That being said you will need a dead man and pully set up on the joist, probably another $20.00 if ya shop it. If your boxes are under 100lb including the platform that is carring them a small 1/8 cable wrapped around the joist and the same size pully would be more than enought. $20.00 should be more than enought to cover that!

Now for the real question, what 4 or 6 wheeler will you be getting to put the winch on?

Cheers

[cork58]

Logging

Oops, Forgot to mention how the harvest went today. You would think it odd to log this time of year in Alaska, well frozen ground (no rocks or mud) maybe 2" of snow and 12deg temps make for an awsome day of cutting and skidding. LOML was dragging the brush and setting chokers. I'd be hard pressed to find another like her. She is cooking dinner while I'm out here in the shop working! I can call this work if I want to! Really I can!

Cork

[leehljp]

Cork,

You give me some food for thought. Good ideas. Thanks.

[LCHIEN]

Technically speaking, the correct terms are:

1. Transformer. Solely converts AC to AC in proportion to the turns ratio of the windings.
2. Power Supply - Converts AC to DC to power DC-powered equipment from an AC mains supply. Can replace a battery of the same DC voltage, provided the current capacity is sufficient, AND Ripple is suitable. Ripple is reduced by filtering and can be 0 to 100% of the DC voltage and must be near zero for most electronics but can be larger for motors, lights, heaters etc.
3. Charger - usually runs off AC Mains to charge a battery. There are many types of chargers -
The ones for lead acid batteries usually have DC voltage a bit higher (13.5V for 12V battery systems) than the batteries they are intended to charge and may have high ripple. They charge using the "Float method" and reduce charging current as the battery becomes charged and the voltage difference becomes small. Basically a 12V lead acid battery charger is a 13.5V power supply.
The ones for NiCAds, NiMH lithiums, etc may have simple (16 hours) or complex fast charging (1-2 hours) circuits that use feedback and even microprocessors to determine when the cells are charged. These would not function well as a power supply.


WHAT you are really asking is, will your lead acid 55AMP charger function as a power supply for the winch you wish to use as a hoist.

Only a float charger intended for lead acid cells would be suitable for use as a power supply for a motorized lift as you intend to do. And it should have higher AMP rating than the motor AMP rating. If the motor is rated in HP and its a 12VDC motor then the WATTS will be approximately the HP x 750. The AMPS required will be approximately WATTS/12. So working backwards, a 55A charger should be able to run an up to 3/4 HP motor.

The charger rated to deliver 55 AMPs charging current should be able to do so safely for a period of time exceeding one or more hours. The charger will deliver about 13.5V to the winch but the winch would normally see that much voltage in a vehicle in which the alternator was running to charge the battery so it would be OK.

A power supply is generally not a transformer although it may have a transformer as an internal component. A transformer will not run a DC motor directly.
Its possible to confuse a transformer with a power supply because the simplest, cheapest power supply is a simply transformer with a small diode or rectifier - but this has 100% ripple and is a very low quality power supply.
I think also the term transformer confuses people because they think it transforms AC power into DC power.

[eezlock]

charger as a transformer?

Lee, I know this response is off in another direction than what you wanted,
but here is an easier and cheaper way to take care of the problem. Why not go HF and buy one of their small chain hoists( the continuous chain type) around
$50.00 and use it and not have to fuss with charger or battery and all that?

These hoists are also called by other names "coffin hoists" and so on but they are very handy when you need them. Something, else that no one else has mentioned in the other posts to you question...When you are lifting heavy items
to these heights, you need a hoist with a built in braking system, that will engage automatically when the lifting stops..just in case of an emergency.

With a vehicle winch...most DO NOT have and automatic brake system built
into them and they have a warning attached to them telling you DO NOT USE
THIS DEVICE FOR OVERHEAD LIFTING! Something else to think about before
doing something that might get you or someone else seriously injured!

[turkeywire]

I am concerned about the amount of weight you are planning to put in the attic. Most attic joists are not sized to support a lot of weight. Just a thought.

Carl

[leehljp]

Loring,
Thanks for the information. That is the information that I was looking for. I will make up my mind by Tuesday. There is a NorthernTool and HF in Memphis that I will go visit!


Eezlock,
I considered that but I am not up to doing that much ratcheting. I could in a pinch but it would be so much easier to push a button. I have about 50 boxes total or so to get into the attic and I am more concerned with doing that without the pain of bursitis in my shoulder.


Turkeywire,
This is an old house (80 years) with old solid pine 2x8 rafters and load bearing walls under the 8 inch joists. This old house has twice the strength that is needed at any given point. The attic is large enough and strong enough to support an upstairs room of 12 by 40 (with a load bearing wall running down the center underneath if I wished to convert it. This was discussed (with a contractor/carpenter)when my dad purchased this house 40 years ago. It has two folding attic stairs.

[LCHIEN]

Lee, i think you need to take seriously EEZLOCKs comment that a winch should not be used as a hoist! It makes sense to me. Stopping a winch pulling a horizontal load the load just sits there so no brake required.
Stopping a winch lifting a load vertically, when the winch stops you may have hundreds of pounds suspended and it will fall as the winch unwinds- very dangerous when reaching the top of travel.

[Whaler]

Lee, do a search on Amazon for Electric Hoists there are a lot of choices. We had a couple in they shop at the marina I managed and they were great for lifting engines. Just remember you want a hoist not a winch.

[leehljp]

A 120v hoist it is. Thanks for the clarification on the breaking action. I located a hoist this afternoon in Memphis and will pick one up tomorrow.

In reading different reviews of different items on Amazon, I did see a couple that used a hoist for the same purpose - above the attic ladder to lift items to the attic.