Groz planes. Am I the only one?

[dbhost]

So far I have a Groz low angle block plane, a Groz #4, and a Groz #5. All of them have been, while not perfect, very quick and easy to get a good initial tune on, lapping the sole, flattening / sharpening the chip breaker and iron and then just have at it to whisper thin shavings.

I see a LOT of reviews on these planes (that didn't bother coming up in searches prior to me investing in them thank you very much...) where folks seem to have had really lousy luck with them, badly out of square castings, horrid irons etc...

I did also notice, MOST (not all) of the poor reviews are from 2006 and older.

Did Groz SERIOUSLY upgrade their quality control since then? Or am I just really lucky?

[pelligrini]

I picked up a low angle block plane and a #4 package set a couple years ago. The low angle works pretty well, but it can be tempermental at times holding the adjustments. Usually working just fine, then all of a sudden not fine.

The number 4 is a different story. It still needs a lot of tuning. The chipbreaker has a bit of a skew, the iron isn't flat (and I'm not just talking about machine marks) I can see daylight between it and the frog. There's a lot of play in the depth adjustment screw. I just haven't wanted to mess with it. I'd rather invest my time and effort into an old Stanley than the Groz. My folks old Capewell #4 even with it's stamped steel frog cuts better.

I have several Stanley/Baily's ranging from a #3 to my #8c, and a Woodriver #6. I wouldn't buy another Groz plane even if they were 75% off. Not worth my time and frustruation.

I have a set of Groz engineers squares which I really like though.

[Bill in Buena Park]

Dave,
Mine tuned up fairly well, and I like it. After getting past my initial weak spot in the iron, its doing well. I'd buy it again.

[dbhost]

Erik,

Yours was one of the bad experiences with the Groz planes that got me to thinking about it... I somewhat wonder how your plane can be so. Well to put it nicely, junky, and mine turned out well...

My low angle block plane is fine for the most part. Never loses settings like yours, everything with decent fit & finish...

My experiences with antique planes like pre war stanleys, and others have been somewhat bass ackwards. The few I have seen for sale locally have been complete trash and they want Lie Nielsen prices for them. And when I say trash, I mean busted castings etc... Not worth fixing trash... Which is one of the reasons I even looked into inexpensive new planes...

I guess I could Ebay planes, but I am VERY leery of buying hand tools in particular without being able to lay hands on it and inspecting it close up and in person... I am worried about getting a busted casting and not having any reasonable recourse...

[pelligrini]

Maybe Groz got better with their quality control and manufacturing, or I just one from the bottom of the barrell.

Most of my Stanleys have been off of ebay, and mostly for very good prices. There's only one that I regret buying. It's a later type model #7c. It wasn't very expensive, but once I got the rust off and cleaned up I found the sole wasn't very flat and there were some really large pits in the heel. Some of them needed a lot of elbow grease, but they were worth it.

[dbhost]

Part of my resistance to buying used of course is unfamiliarity. I have heard, and first hand seen so much bad about post war Stanley planes that I simply don't want to bother with them. I am unsure how to tell which ones are which from a pic, or an Ebay listing...

And a good number of say for example Stanley #7c planes on Ebay right now are being bid at over $150.00, which sight unseen is just not worth it to me. Too much to risk on an unknown quantity.

And to be honest, I am not about to spend $300.00 or more on a hand plane. Just not in the budget you know?

Come to think of it, I wish I could have laid claim to my dads old collection of Stanley planes. Those he got from his dad, and so on. They were late 1800s manufactured I am sure...

[pelligrini]

You have to be patient with the ebay auctions to get the good deals. Mine aren't collectors showpieces either. Little or no japanning left doesn't bother me too much. Doesn't affect how it cuts. That type 7 #6 I got recently had a broken tote and an unmatched front knob. Found it to be shop made. I got it for around $30.

Until I finally won my Type 9 #8c for ~$60 I thought I would never find one for under $150. I wanted one, but not that badly.

[Knottscott]

Part of my resistance to buying used of course is unfamiliarity. I have heard, and first hand seen so much bad about post war Stanley planes that I simply don't want to bother with them. I am unsure how to tell which ones are which from a pic, or an Ebay listing...

Not all the post war planes were bad, and "bad" by old school standards was still pretty good....likely better than what's acceptable for the new inexpensive imports. I've got some planes from the 40s, 50s, and even 80's that are really pretty nice. If you were to compare quality of metals, design robustness, precision of the machining, wood selection/finish of the handles, and overall craftsmanship, from screws, adjustment knobs, lever caps, irons, handles, etc., I'd think you'd find the older planes in general just have better bones from the start. I actually think there's more risk with most of these inexpensive modern imports.

One of the pitfalls with older planes is that there are so many eras that a plane can come from... some of those eras were better than others...still likely very good by modern standards of inexpensive planes, and some were excellent. Another thing to watch for with older planes is the lower end stuff...nearly every major manufacturer had a "DIYer" series or two. If you stick with the higher end lines, you're odds of getting a really nice plane are very high (Millers Falls, Record, Sargent VBM, Union, Stanley Bailey, Stanley Bedrock,etc). These things were built to last by proud craftsman who offered their best on a regular basis, before the bean counters, business moguls, share holders, and lawyers started dictating how things should be done. There are some great websites that can help with just about every aspect of buying and restoring older planes. RexMill.com, OldToolHeaven.com, Record-planes.com, CianPerez.com

Here's a lesser example of a Stanley plane vs a better Stanley "Bailey" from 1927-28:




Here's a couple of post war beauties:

[poolhound]

I also have the LA version and I find it works pretty well. I also have a bench plane (No 3 or 4 I think) and that doesnt work as well but I havent spent much time tuning it.

[dbhost]

FWIW, I did the tuning of the #5 last night. Spent a total of about 30 minutes finishing cleaning the cosmoline off of it, flattening what needed to be flattened, sharpening what needs to be sharpened, and setting the blade depth. The results?

A.) The sole went straight to 320 grit and no low spots visible anywhere on it.
B.) The frog tool a tad bit of work on the 80 grit. There was a cast in pit that I had to work out. It is gone now, so the frog is nice and flat.
C.) Chipbreaker. Dead flat out of the box. Polished at 320 and called good.
D.) Blade. This took a bit of work flattening the back side. I went from 80, to 120, 220, and then 320 before going to the waterstone. I think the grits there are 600 and 1200 side respectively... Repeat for the bevel. Put the buffing wheel on the DP and buffed the funky ridge out.
E.) Reassembled the plane and everything went in exactly as it should have... Set the blade depth, took a swipe at some scrap SYP, too deep, set the blade depth again, took a swipe, and ended up with rice paper full width shavings... Repeated the process on a scrap chunk of particularly twisty Pecan scrap from the firewood pile... Shave the high spots, then produced full width whisper thin shavings... Smooth as a baby's backside too!

All in all, I have been impressed with these for being cheap planes... Are these the same quality as Veritas or LN? Heck no. But they don't cost like either of them... They are really the planes to beat in the bargain plane price point... The low end Stanleys, and even the new re-release of the Sweetheart planes may have a hard time beating one of these when tuned right...

I don't think these are the right planes for everybody. But for those willing to tune their planes up, and to check before you bring it home that you got a straight one, these planes are awfully hard to beat...

[scmhogg]

My experience with their No. 4 was very similar. http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...highlight=groz

However, since my original fettle, this plane has worked great. The iron held an edge for a long time. The only thing I have done since is touch up and strop the iron.

Steve